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[Cotes]

Okay, we get it. You do not like the way it is in .19

Don't play .19!

It will not be this way when toady has finished fleshing out the scarcity numbers and works out the trade. You're freaking out over nothing. Play .18 and be happy, or wait. Or deal with the single ore vein issue and play anyway. It isn't as bad as you're making it out.

Perhaps repeating myself is in order afterall.

I:

1. like the direction of making ore rarer.

2. find the current level of implementation (.19) lacking and not fun to play (regarding mining)

3. am voicing my bafflement at people who think the changes made in .19 are fine as they are now

If you can't deal with 3., I suggest you stay away from places such as forums that are made to let people voice their opinion. Also, unless you also tell people who say they like playing .19 to shut up, you can't really without hypocrisy tell that to people who say they don't. Both positive and negative opinions are allowed.

[forsaken1111]

I guess I need to repeat myself as well?

1. like the direction of making ore rarer.

Okay.

2. find the current level of implementation (.19) lacking and not fun to play (regarding mining)

So don't play the current version.

3. am voicing my bafflement at people who think the changes made in .19 are fine as they are now

Some people like things which you do not. You can express your bafflement all you want, but what I find fun and what you find fun aren't going to be the same thing. Coming here to tell me that you find my idea of fun strange serves no purpose at all, yet you keep doing it.

[NW_Kohaku]

Okay, we get it. You do not like the way it is in .19

Don't play .19!

It will not be this way when toady has finished fleshing out the scarcity numbers and works out the trade. You're freaking out over nothing. Play .18 and be happy, or wait. Or deal with the single ore vein issue and play anyway. It isn't as bad as you're making it out.

Yes, the issue will be addressed, but what you were saying is that "you don't see why people are whining".

To say "OK, so single ore issues are just a part of this release, so don't play this release" is to at least tacitly agree that the issues that people are talking about are legitimate.  If they are talking about legitimate issues, you should be able to recognize why it's worth talking about.

I don't really like the 31.01 style of drowning your map in an amazing technicolor lightshow, and I liked 40d's way of handling minerals, generally.  31.19 is a significant overcorrection, and to say that minerals are too scarce now doesn't mean that having an init option for 31.01 forever is satisfying, either.  I want Toady to correct the scarcity so that native platinum isn't as common on the world map as limonite is just because all ores are equal.  To get that correction, it's worth speaking up about it, as after all, Toady made his statement of intent to put in an init option because of the feedback he got on this thread and the announcement thread.  He does read these things and change his plans accordingly.

"Don't Bitch about This" comments (even if that one wasn't yours) seem to reflect a lack of understanding this.

[forsaken1111]

When the issue being complained about has been acknowledged and is being worked on by the developer, I see no reason to continue voicing those complaints. Are you just venting at this point to make yourself feel better?

[Cotes]

I guess I need to repeat myself as well?

1. like the direction of making ore rarer.

Okay.

2. find the current level of implementation (.19) lacking and not fun to play (regarding mining)

So don't play the current version.

3. am voicing my bafflement at people who think the changes made in .19 are fine as they are now

Some people like things which you do not. You can express your bafflement all you want, but what I find fun and what you find fun aren't going to be the same thing. Coming here to tell me that you find my idea of fun strange serves no purpose at all, yet you keep doing it.

Likewise, what purpose does you telling me to not say my mind have? If you don't like what I say, don't read my posts.

Besides, I was under the impression these forums served exactly the purpose of providing feedback and criticism.

[NW_Kohaku]

When the issue being complained about has been acknowledged and is being worked on by the developer, I see no reason to continue voicing those complaints. Are you just venting at this point to make yourself feel better?

Actually, I was only responding to you, and the claims that it would be realistic to not find even things like microcline, or that it is just "whining" to say that things should change from what they are now.  You're the one who brought this issue back up again.

[Cotes]

When the issue being complained about has been acknowledged and is being worked on by the developer, I see no reason to continue voicing those complaints. Are you just venting at this point to make yourself feel better?

Your opinion regarding my post has been acknowledged. I do not see why you keep repeating your opinion. Are you just venting something?

[forsaken1111]

Fine, enjoy patting each other on the back and complaining about the game for no reason. I was just trying to return the thread to some semblance of actual discussion. If you people want to keep repeating the same shit that's been said already, go for it.

[Flaede]

I like it. My last embark I screwed up (only deep metals), didn't get sand or clay, and accidentally let my grazing animals starve.

Welcome to Starcastle, here's your Themesong.

[Cotes]

Fine, enjoy patting each other on the back and complaining about the game for no reason. I was just trying to return the thread to some semblance of actual discussion. If you people want to keep repeating the same shit that's been said already, go for it.

Oh please, like your comments here have served any higher purpose than anyone else's. I say .19 is not fun to play, you say it is. How is repeating the latter more of an "actual discussion" than the former? You little forum elitism is baseless.

And patting who on the back? NW_Kohaku? Us both calling you out isn't a pat on anyones back - It's common knowledge on hypocritical debate tactics.

If you didn't want to dwell on this subject, then why did you turn my two cents into two page discussion? Especially after I made it perfectly clear from the beginning I realized .19 is just one step in the development. And if you want to me to come up with a reason for why my post had a meaning (as if I have to or as if the average post on any forum really had any), then consider it one small piece of the collective feedback this site is supposed to provide.

[gtmattz]

For the first time in a few versions I have Lost...

This is why I like .19

That is all.

[furlion]

I just used the Reveal tool from the DfHack library and holy crap. The diversity in metals is definitely way down. I chose this site for shallow metal and deep metals (not the singular and plural respectively). I knew I had a large magnetite vein right near the surface but using dfreveal I found multiple veins spanning multiple z-levels. In this one site I have just shy of 33k magnetite and all the flux I could need to use it lol. While I understand the frustration of those who have trouble finding a site that suits them, it is possible still.

[narhiril]

I guess I need to repeat myself as well?

1. like the direction of making ore rarer.

Okay.

2. find the current level of implementation (.19) lacking and not fun to play (regarding mining)

So don't play the current version.

3. am voicing my bafflement at people who think the changes made in .19 are fine as they are now

Some people like things which you do not. You can express your bafflement all you want, but what I find fun and what you find fun aren't going to be the same thing. Coming here to tell me that you find my idea of fun strange serves no purpose at all, yet you keep doing it.

Your ideas are your own.  You're allowed to like whatever you want.  Where we run into problems is where what you, and people like yourself, "like" starts to interfere with what other players like Cotes and myself like.  I would love to play around with the new features in .19 as well, but I am restricted from doing so because a few people like you demanded that your own self-imposed "limits" on available resources be forced onto everyone else.

It is clear that you play a very different style of dwarf fortress than I do.  Clearly, you are drawn to the challenge of survival with limited resources, and I respect that.  I am more attracted to the siege and megaproject side of things.  My problem comes when you start to force your playstyle onto mine - and I don't think it's at all a stretch to say that the changes to minerals in .19 are very much forcing players towards your preferred playstyle.

I know I don't have to play .19, so I'm not.  That doesn't mean, however, that I want to stay with .18 forever either.  Bugfixes in the future will not be released for previous versions, and, having waited a long time looking forward to a new version, I'm a bit miffed about not being able to have any fun playing it due to my preferred style of play being blown to hell because of people demanding that their silly fantasy computer game be more "realistic."

Bad things happen when you fix what isn't broken.

[forsaken1111]

Your ideas are your own.  You're allowed to like whatever you want.  Where we run into problems is where what you, and people like yourself, "like" starts to interfere with what other players like Cotes and myself like.  I would love to play around with the new features in .19 as well, but I am restricted from doing so because a few people like you demanded that your own self-imposed "limits" on available resources be forced onto everyone else.

It is clear that you play a very different style of dwarf fortress than I do.  Clearly, you are drawn to the challenge of survival with limited resources, and I respect that.  I am more attracted to the siege and megaproject side of things.  My problem comes when you start to force your playstyle onto mine - and I don't think it's at all a stretch to say that the changes to minerals in .19 are very much forcing players towards your preferred playstyle.

I know I don't have to play .19, so I'm not.  That doesn't mean, however, that I want to stay with .18 forever either.  Bugfixes in the future will not be released for previous versions, and, having waited a long time looking forward to a new version, I'm a bit miffed about not being able to have any fun playing it due to my preferred style of play being blown to hell because of people demanding that their silly fantasy computer game be more "realistic."

Bad things happen when you fix what isn't broken.

Cute, so now its my fault that Toady changed the mineral availability? I seriously doubt he did this because some people wanted less diverse metals on the map. You cannot have an effective trade system if every material is available everywhere in high abundance, it simply doesn't work. Why would anyone trade? You could just kick over a rock and strike gold.

If you want to play .19 but want more metals on these metal-poor maps, just mod in some reactions which output free metal or something.

There is no point in blaming me and others who like the playstyle for these changes. Toady decided on the, and he has already said there will be options to support multiple styles of play.


Right now you have three choices: Play anyway, play and mod, or play an old version.

Or you can not play, and wait.

[chewie]

I just had an idea:
As soon as we are able to send our own caravans out, it should be also possible to send a mining team out of your normal map area. Build them a wagon, give them food and drinks for, let's say three months and picks. Then you tell them "Go to that map tile and try your luck!". Three months later they come back and you see what they have gathered. Maybe they got a shitload of iron ore, maybe only worthless orthoclase, or maybe they have been killed during the journey or while they've been mining
IMO this would solve the problem with lesser metals on your map pretty good. My current fort doesn't have much metal by now, but enough food and wood to send out three of those teams.

What do you think about that guys? Good idea? Should those teams be directly controllable by the player?