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[ral]

I haven't found any coal yet either. Is there any way to tell if you have both coal and metal occurring in the same place on the world map? Or just any way to determine if you have coal somewhere at all....

[EveryZig]

In my embark, I actually am finding tons of gold, and a good bit of tetrahedrite, but nothing to make iron or even bronze from.

About survival, theoretically you could make a system centered around atom smashers (a long line of 1x1s to avoid most weight issues) and cage traps. But that would be kind of undwarfy.

[PwndJa]

In my embark, I actually am finding tons of gold, and a good bit of tetrahedrite, but nothing to make iron or even bronze from.

About survival, theoretically you could make a system centered around atom smashers (a long line of 1x1s to avoid most weight issues) and cage traps. But that would be kind of undwarfy.

A system with an atom smasher every other(Or every third) tile could be set up to thin the goblins out but still remain slightly Dwarfy.

[Jayce]

Gold shouldnt be common,iron and the metals for bronze should be more so,i can remember in previous versions of df having such large amounts of gold and silver that i built forts and roads out of it,if i saw a road made of gold id pull it up and sell it.

[EveryZig]

On gold: The only three metals I have seen on my map are galena, tetrahedrite, and golf. Gold is the most common of the three.

Hmm... If the goblins have metal armor... Salvage Fort! Building up from no metal in the beginning to a fully functional military/trap setup on goblinite alone. You could build a bridge of long distance dropping to get your starting goblinite, and proceed from there. It would take a long time, but it would be quite dwarfy.

[Misterstone]

This is the first time in a LONG time you have been so restricted on where you can go. It used to be that you could embark anywhere (pure mountains and pure oceans notwithstanding) and it would be possible to survive and thrive, albeit with some places being far more difficult than others. Now, the scarcity of metal means that some places are IMPOSSIBLE for you to survive or thrive, unless you literally wall yourselves in.

But you're not being restricted.  The only thing restricting you is your insistence on having lots of high-end metal easily on hand for outfitting your military.  If you want to build a fortress in the middle of a jungle where there is little or no iron ore, you can do it, just be ready to deal with shortages.  If you don't have iron, you can trade for it.  You can wait until goblins attack, and smelt their stuff down.  You can go straight for fringe adamantine bits that are safe for harvest.  There are lots of options.  They make the game more difficult by a couple of magnitudes perhaps, but that's a reasonable pay-off I think.  By trading alone you should be able to outfit a decent military over a few years. 

Will you have enough metal to make a replica of Mt. Rushmore out of steel?  Probably not.  But I don't think that letting people build whatever they want in whatever setting they want should be a priority.  The point as I see it is to provide a realistically modeled world, and challenge to player to thrive on it.

Granted it might be a good idea to make ore or metal bars more plentiful through trade.  Hopefully when the Caravan arc this kind of thing will work better.

[Jayce]

Don't really need coal as urgently as we once did.  Why?  Underground trees, that's why.  Elf problems?  Dwarf the f up already.

Also you can find map sites with accessible metal without too much trouble.  They are more rare.  All that means is that there are fewer sites on the world map that make good conventional dwarf settlements.  In most cases you need to start near a mountain in order to get metal.  When you think about it, it makes sense.  All of this business with dwarves starting out on a beach next to a tropical jungle isn't really very in-character for dwarves, is it?

Says you! Dwarves making a seaside fort, with massive glass windows on one side allowing you to gaze into the deep blue? Jungle forts, built like Aztec temples with war elephants? Those are all great!

This is the first time in a LONG time you have been so restricted on where you can go. It used to be that you could embark anywhere (pure mountains and pure oceans notwithstanding) and it would be possible to survive and thrive, albeit with some places being far more difficult than others. Now, the scarcity of metal means that some places are IMPOSSIBLE for you to survive or thrive, unless you literally wall yourselves in.

I don't see how you can justify being straitjacketed to certain sites, just to get metal. Or it being nigh-impossible to get good metal sites on anything smaller than a medium world. Or how people have to suddenly embark with naught but one barrel of ale and a dog because for some reason nobody has copper, meaning they have to use tools that are three times as expensive.

Well i guess if you pick a non mountainous terrian you will have to make your fortune from bees and non metal crafts.

[agatharchides]

Like I said in another thread, I don't know how many of you were around for 40d, but maps with no iron were quite common then and we still defended our forts. You don't need a massive steel industry to survive. Traps can be made from non-metals, you can import a fair amount if you ask for bars, crafts, armor and weapons and marksdwarves work well, they don't need iron for the crossbow and a little metal goes a long way for bolts. Drowning chambers can be made and moats and ballista bolts made of subpar metal. And there is always goblinite if you get past the first siege. I agree it is harder and that it needs work but you don't have to have all the materials for steel and bronze on the map to survive by any means.

EDIT And I am not sure what this business about mountains is. Most of mine are barren and when I told the finder to give me surface metal, clay and no aquifer it gave me two locations, one in the swamp and the other in a jungle.

[Jayce]

On gold: The only three metals I have seen on my map are galena, tetrahedrite, and golf. Gold is the most common of the three.

Yeah you cant get excited about gold when its more common than any other metal.

[agatharchides]

The thing I have noticed about this is that while there is much less diversity in the metal on a map, there is a huge amount of whatever is there. So if you have gold, you have probably struck it rich but you'll never find iron.

[Daetrin]

Like I said in another thread, I don't know how many of you were around for 40d, but maps with no iron were quite common then and we still defended our forts. You don't need a massive steel industry to survive. Traps can be made from non-metals, you can import a fair amount if you ask for bars, crafts, armor and weapons and marksdwarves work well, they don't need iron for the crossbow and a little metal goes a long way for bolts. Drowning chambers can be made and moats and ballista bolts made of subpar metal. And there is always goblinite if you get past the first siege. I agree it is harder and that it needs work but you don't have to have all the materials for steel and bronze on the map to survive by any means.

EDIT And I am not sure what this business about mountains is. Most of mine are barren and when I told the finder to give me surface metal, clay and no aquifer it gave me two locations, one in the swamp and the other in a jungle.

In 40D though, there wasn't the materials, military, or health system we have now.  The superiority of iron and steel is arguably much more important now.

[G-Flex]

Actually, iron isn't that great anymore. Bronze is better, at least, and copper is surprisingly good for armor for some reason. Unless that changed.

[Sarudak]

There's always drowning traps and falling traps.

[ral]

The lack of metal diversity and fuel wouldn't bother me nearly as much if the caravans would show up with on the order of 100 of several types of metal bars, coal, or something, or if you could send out your own caravans looking for stuff. As things are right now, trade is so limited that I can just have one stonecrafter sit there and make stone crafts and by the time the next caravan shows up I can trade all the stone crafts for absolutely everything that the caravan brings if I want. Unfortunately they don't show up with much that I care about. Seems like the only thing I can buy enough of from a caravan is leather and cloth. I never bother to weave cloth or tan hides.

[Girlinhat]

Once more: This is an incomplete release.  We know that caravans aren't pulling their weight.  Now.  Wait.