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[Vorthon]

I'm actually not enjoying this now. Nine times out of ten my civilisation has no access to iron, copper or any useful metals at all, and 90% of the world map is either barren or full of something useless like Bismuth.

It's just... it's not fun anymore. There's having a challenge, and there's being kicked in the balls over and over because fuck you player. And that's what this is. And why are we suddenly not allowed to know what sort of stone will be on the map? Why did we need that taken away? Now it's even harder to get the materials you want. Now what if I want a Microcline fortress, or Sandstone pyramids in a desert? Nope, sorry, you're not allowed to see until you get there now for some utterly arbitrary reason! And good luck trying to survive long enough!

tl;dr Metal now being incredibly scarce has made the game unfun for me. Now it's a choice between 'Go to that biome you want, that MIGHT have the stone you want, oh but you won't have any metals' or 'Fuck you player, go here if you want to actually get anywhere, you have no choice in this matter anymore'. This isn't fun, this isn't even Fun. It's just frustrating, and I see no way metal being so scarce can be good.

I'm kinda happy that the walls of my fort don't have patches of different stuff in them now. Uniform, pretty walls...

But the lack of metals still sucks.

[Jayce]

From too much to too little,i will have to see if this whine derserves its cheese.

[Mantonio]

From too much to too little,i will have to see if this whine derserves its cheese.

Don't just brush off peoples complaints with the equivalent of 'stop whining'. This is a sudden change people weren't prepared for that suddenly made the game a lot harder (impossible in some cases, since for some reason less metal was implemented before caravans) and makes it more restricting.

[MasterMorality]

The bees and eggs are great but the new geology is unrealistic and too hard.

Sounds like a case of "reality is unrealistic".....

[PwndJa]

Found a decent(Looked decent on the embark screen anyway) site to embark only to find that I couldn't get an axe or a pick 

[UristMcDwarf]

C'mon guys, Toady'll get this fixed in time.

[ohgoditburns]

Found a decent(Looked decent on the embark screen anyway) site to embark only to find that I couldn't get an axe or a pick 

Abort, find the site again, change which dwarf civ you come from.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

If I recall correctly, 40d had more minerals than this. Probably why most players were/are shocked by the sudden change. Realism, is not a factor. Pulling the carpet out from under people's feet is.

Also, in my current game the stone is so monotonous. It's like marble, marble, marble, topazolite! Marble, marble, marble, topazolite again!

[agatharchides]

It did and this is a pretty sudden change half implemented so I am not surprised people are miffed. I do think it has potential in the long run though, I prefer only have a few kinds of metal and trading to being able to mine more platinum than the world has produced in all history out of a 3x3 embark.

[Mantonio]

Found a decent(Looked decent on the embark screen anyway) site to embark only to find that I couldn't get an axe or a pick 

Abort, find the site again, change which dwarf civ you come from.

Wait, you can do that?

[agatharchides]

Yep. If you hit tab on the word map it will cycle through modes, one of which is the civ list. 

[ohgoditburns]

Found a decent(Looked decent on the embark screen anyway) site to embark only to find that I couldn't get an axe or a pick 

Abort, find the site again, change which dwarf civ you come from.

Wait, you can do that?

Yeah, when you're on the world screen finding your site, if you hit tab it goes through a variety of different screens. They indicate the soil layers, the elevation, the cliffs, the other races and your relation with them, and there is one that is a list of civ names. You can scroll through those to choose which civ you come from. The location of that civ should show up on the world map as a blue tile - sometimes it's hard to spot it.

Those civs have different materials and animals based on the location.

[Emily Murkpaddled]

tl;dr Metal now being incredibly scarce has made the game unfun for me. Now it's a choice between 'Go to that biome you want, that MIGHT have the stone you want, oh but you won't have any metals' or 'Fuck you player, go here if you want to actually get anywhere, you have no choice in this matter anymore'. This isn't fun, this isn't even Fun. It's just frustrating, and I see no way metal being so scarce can be good.

I agree with the thrust of this on the basis that there are not consistent-enough rules describing where the player can expect to find particular layer stones for players to find the materials they want without the more-detailed embark readouts. If world gen followed more consistent patterns across individual gens, shifting the burden to player knowledge in this way might have been more reasonable -- at present, though, this is a pretty egregious example of replacing a feature (that players uniformly liked) with ... the absence of that feature!

I'm unsure what purpose removing the ability to see even just what type of layer stone is on the surface of an embark served. Given how many region tiles layer stones are consistent across of a mountainside, it seems ludicrous that the civilization "wouldn't know" what was there until the embark party actually arrives. It's not an exhaustive or unreasonable task to determine whether this mountain's extruded portion is sedimentary, metamorphic, or igneous -- or, heck, identifying a single layer stone type, maybe -- and because knowing-so can greatly serve the fun of players, removing that knowledge without any other reliable method other than embark scumming across the map seems short-sighted or callous.

[Askot Bokbondeler]

adding a reaction that takes a dummy reagent and cranks out a lump of iron ore, a lump of bituminous coal, a lump of native copper, and a lump of cassiterite and their respective smelted versions to the dwarves entity solves the problem of your mother civ not having access to iron
if you want traders to bring more iron, you can also create a new metal called something like "a fuckton of iron" worth ten times the value of iron, then create a reaction to break it into 10 iron bars

if you don't want to feel like a cheater you can add that reaction to the goblin's civ, seeing as they don't even have a bronze making reaction, they'd be even more screwed than you if they had no access to iron

if you don't really care about cheating, set up a workshop to crank whatever you want out of nothing

i was playing 31.18 with [METAL_ORE:IRON:10] on iron ores, so i kind of know the tricks to deal with scarcity

[agatharchides]

tl;dr Metal now being incredibly scarce has made the game unfun for me. Now it's a choice between 'Go to that biome you want, that MIGHT have the stone you want, oh but you won't have any metals' or 'Fuck you player, go here if you want to actually get anywhere, you have no choice in this matter anymore'. This isn't fun, this isn't even Fun. It's just frustrating, and I see no way metal being so scarce can be good.

I agree with the thrust of this on the basis that there are not consistent-enough rules describing where the player can expect to find particular layer stones for players to find the materials they want without the more-detailed embark readouts. If world gen followed more consistent patterns across individual gens, shifting the burden to player knowledge in this way might have been more reasonable -- at present, though, this is a pretty egregious example of replacing a feature (that players uniformly liked) with ... the absence of that feature!

I'm unsure what purpose removing the ability to see even just what type of layer stone is on the surface of an embark served. Given how many region tiles layer stones are consistent across of a mountainside, it seems ludicrous that the civilization "wouldn't know" what was there until the embark party actually arrives. It's not an exhaustive or unreasonable task to determine whether this mountain's extruded portion is sedimentary, metamorphic, or igneous -- or, heck, identifying a single layer stone type, maybe -- and because knowing-so can greatly serve the fun of players, removing that knowledge without any other reliable method other than embark scumming across the map seems short-sighted or callous.

I tend to be an advocate of the new metals system, but I second that. In RL people (including me) will just embark-scum to get what they want, so denying the information just adds a pointless busywork step.