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[Taricus]

Probably, it could be absolutly HUGE 

That's no moon!

Don't let the elves get too close, they might fling a giant eagle egg into it.

[penco]

All fine with me as long as trade wagons get fixed SOON and traders bring more than 4 ores when you request them.

It actually sounds neat. No metals? Build 20000 clay mugs before fall and buy enough copper and iron to survive the first ambush.

[Flaede]

All fine with me as long as trade wagons get fixed SOON and traders bring more than 4 ores when you request them.

It actually sounds neat. No metals? Build 20000 clay mugs before fall and buy enough copper and iron to survive the first ambush.

MY CIVS HAVE NO IRON TO TRADE.

*ahem*. sorry. uhm. yes. it does sound like a cool challenge. I'm working with mud, and will build the seat of an empire! But it does seem a bit much unless we are going to go back to expecting epic attempts to deal with the oddities of every embark.

But then again, why not? Why not try and have every game be Epic?

[tps12]

Things like platinum and aluminum aren't exactly supposed to occur in high quantity.

Aluminium is the most abundant metal in the Earth's crust, and the third most abundant element, after oxygen and silicon.

- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminum

[G-Flex]

Do more reading. We're not talking about aluminum as an element, we're talking about aluminum as a free, native metal. There is a huge, huge difference here, and native aluminum is extraordinarily rare in the real world.

[Flaede]

Things like platinum and aluminum aren't exactly supposed to occur in high quantity.

Aluminium is the most abundant metal in the Earth's crust, and the third most abundant element, after oxygen and silicon.

- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminum

Yes, but a lot of that is tied up in places that dwarven technology is not equipped to extract it from.

EDIT: oop. ninja'd.

[Vorthon]

Do more reading. We're not talking about aluminum as an element, we're talking about aluminum as a free, native metal. There is a huge, huge difference here, and native aluminum is extraordinarily rare in the real world.

Yeah, a lot of aluminum is locked up in bauxite in stuff like that.

Edit: Damnit! Double Ninja'd!

[Havenspire]

Sounds to me like this could be another "init" setting for worldgen

Honestly, this makes for a great 'challenge' mode, but for newbies it makes learning DF very difficult. Personally, I'd like the option for both scarce and abundant metals @ worldgen.

[Taricus]

Sounds to me like this could be another "init" setting for worldgen

Honestly, this makes for a great 'challenge' mode, but for newbies it makes learning DF very difficult. Personally, I'd like the option for both scarce and abundant metals @ worldgen.

World gen parameter: Mineral availability.

[Emily Murkpaddled]

I genned a world with the full 3 cave layers but each layer as close to each other or the surface as possible. I've tunneled down more than 50 layers beneath the surface now before breaking into a cave layer, and this cave layer also marks the first metal I've found despite one of my biomes having been listed as 'shallow metal' alongside 'deep metal.'

I only get about 50 FPS generally, so it was an investment of a few hours to even just discover that this embark was absolutely trash for me. I like that metals are scarcer, but I feel like the degree of the scarcity could still use some fine-tuning. :F

The worst part about this, too, is that I add ENVIRONMENT:SEDIMENTARY:VEIN:100 to native copper (and METAMORPHIC for malachite), and add small clusters of cassiterite to more types as well, but I still found absolutely nothing prior to the galena 52 z-levels below the surface!

At present, it just feels like -- if this pattern holds, needing to breach the underground to find any metal -- that the game is sort of forcing my hand to make the fortress at the underground. I used a Play Now! embark this time, but I think from now on I'm going to need to add copper to my preparations so that it's more feasible to just tunnel down and begin the game at the underground ... this really makes me wish alluvial small clusters and stuff that's seemed to be broken for a while was more functional, though, because putting more emphasis on digging deeper makes those would-be tracer deposits so-much-more-relevant than they previously would have been.

[G-Flex]

Sounds to me like this could be another "init" setting for worldgen

Honestly, this makes for a great 'challenge' mode, but for newbies it makes learning DF very difficult. Personally, I'd like the option for both scarce and abundant metals @ worldgen.

More importantly, I think Toady should actually improve upon the features involved. The reason why this sucks so much is because it's probably buggy, is problematically implemented (or so it seems), the embark screen could probably use a little work, and trade isn't good enough yet to account for it.

I'd honestly rather discuss how to improve a problematic feature and find out why it's problematic than lump it in some category like "GOOD", "BAD", or "MAKE IT AN INIT OPTION SO I DON'T HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT".

[agatharchides]

 I could be wrong, but it seems that most people agree this could be a good thing, but it needs more information easily found before embark and trade needs to be stepped up to fill the gap.

[UristMcDwarf]

I'm good with it, really.

I've got hematite, and with a bit of modding I can make sandstone a flux.

[idgarad]

I really liked this lack of metals, my first embark back on .16 was in a gabbro area totally devoid of metal but full of diamonds above ground. My first steel mail shirt was given to the militia commander and he never felt so powerful. After some embarks with metal the game became too easy and my fortress grew boring cause sieges and ambushes didnt really provided any challenge. Im in favor of having to adapt your fortress to suit the embark rather then adapt the embark to your fortress.

Edit: this post was full of spelling errors, Im ashamed. It might still have somes since im not a native speaker...

He felt powerful until the first ambush getting slaughtered by 12 goblins all in iron.

This metal scarcity wouldn't be an issue if goblins didn't jump out 4 month after embarking wearing iron, bronze, armed with steel daggers.... :/

I played 3 fortresses last night and all terminated in death (I refuse to use traps otherwise game is ZZZzzzz...) from simply the fact I can't get metal weapons in any quantity. I simply couldn't burn wood, smelt ore fast enough without having some coal to fuel the process to get iron armor up and running. The other scenario was no iron at all and meager amounts of copper. None of the forts made it past year 3 so far. I'm sure that depending on circumstances there is ample ore, however we as players are also racing the clock to get access to ores be it fending off invaders or preventing tantrum spirals. It really comes down to TTA (Time To Acquire) for an ore.

Let us assume for the sake of discussion that it takes 1 month, with overhead to tap a layer.
We'll use 2 months for cave layers.

Given iron ore lets say on layer 8 we are looking a 8 months to tap that (counting the fact we are farming, building, etc in the background). Hit the caves and layer 5-8 and you are looking at 10 months. Now feel free to adjust the time-per-layer to what you see fit. The question is how quickly can you get, at a minimum Iron weapons and armor flowing before 1 goblin ambush shows up 1 shotting your dwarves with steel weapons? Hell My last fort was wiped out by 1 goblin kidnapper with a steel dagger.

[Deon]

I embark with needed resources and it's not that big issue this way. If you can't fight off goblins, start with metals.

Modding aside, it may be a problem though.

Hell My last fort was wiped out by 1 goblin kidnapper with a steel dagger.

Did you mod your dwarves to be weaker? Because a decently trained with shield wrestler takes out a goblin snatcher 1 vs 1 in mere seconds.