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[NW_Kohaku]

There are obviously shortcuts and abstractions taken, since there's just no way that 10,000 z-levels wouldn't simply cause the computer memory to explode, but at the same time, mountains aren't as tall as they should be, either, nor oceans as deep, and yet the game tries to simulate real-life geology as best as a computer is capable of handling.

Why would there be magma vents and magma pipes if there were no pressures on the magma that force it up? 

To say that DF geology, vulcanism, cave-in mechanics, pressure upon stone and the like are at a point where they can never be advanced, and must be simply hand-waved away as "magic" forever onward is silly.  At some point, the incomplete implementation will be made more complete.

[G-Flex]

I agree, but I still don't like to think of the magma sea as the mantle of the planet. Things wouldn't even be able to survive down there; it's absurd.

Of all the release threads, this one's discussion has the highest ratio of words to relevance I've ever seen.  No wonder Toady doesn't link to them from the front page anymore.

It's not my fault that a discussion of metal availability got sidetracked into a NW_Kohaku suggestion thread. Wait, I guess it possibly is.

[Psieye]

Of all the release threads, this one's discussion has the highest ratio of words to relevance I've ever seen.  No wonder Toady doesn't link to them from the front page anymore.

Though not quite close to this thread, wasn't the release thread for when sprawl was fresh introduced (i.e. covering everything and making embarking impossible for most of the map when using default worldgen settings) also quite filled with uh... rants followed by highly indepth but irrelevant discussions on the history, logistics and realism of farming? When a new feature turns out to be really annoyingly implemented on first try (to be fixed 'soon' by Toady), this community tends to vent by getting academic. It's a lot nicer than the common alternative of generic no-content flamewar.

Onto relevant matters, I just submitted a bug on Mantis about earthenware clay statues not paying attention to my legendary potter's skill level. Can anyone confirm?

[Toady One]

Cross-posting this from the missing metal thread:

Regarding the fighting that has taken place upthread, people should relax and not fight with each other when we are the source of your grievances.  As I acknowledged in the release notes, this is a problem.  The release was split because it was delayed and needed to be aired out.  I cleaned up a lot of the loose (split?) ends, but I only thought of this one at the last moment, so I mentioned it in the notes and plan to sort it out during this bugfix period.  Once we have trade, some assurance that a reasonable amount of ore is being brought to the surface in world gen and better local mineral veins, I imagine it'll be less of a problem, but we don't have any of those things yet.  Even after that, I think we should end up with some world gen options for different play styles for next time.  As people have mentioned, an over-abundance of metals will essentially remove that element of the economy (and warfare etc etc), but not everybody is going to be playing for those reasons and it is very easy for me to fix.  Worlds with some variation in metal distribution will be the ones that receive the most attention over the long term, though.

I've read the rest of the thread and taken down the issues I could find.  The last few days I've been unburying myself from non-programming B12 stuff that has piled up (email etc.)...  that isn't done but I'm not sure I'm ever going to see the bottom of my inbox again anyway.  I should be checking off the first bugs by the end of the day today.  We haven't decided what the release schedule for these bug fix periods is going to look like.  A release usually eats up most of a day, so it might make more sense to do one at the end of the few weeks to get an extra day of bug fixing for every intervening release that is skipped, though obviously that demands a bit more patience.

[Psieye]

Personally I recommend doing one release 2/3 of the way through a bugfix period to see if any new bugs arose from the fixes. Then release a 'temporarily stable' version at the end of the bugfix period before resuming with new content creation. Though in this case, maybe you want to get out a version fairly quick to get the "we want some options for more ore" people in on the playtesting.

[Flaede]

Personally I'm loving the change. Forcing me out of the "turtle in" box is good.

On the bug front, however, I think we can say that the wild animal nesting instinct is the new sleeping sickness. Only more hilarious.

[Korva]

Thanks, Toady. There's a lot I like about the new version -- the new animals, the new industries, grazers grazing, that's all great fun. I'm among those people who are very much in favor of "richer" maps, so I'm glad there may be options for that. I'll hold off updating "for real" for now, but I'll definitely putter around with this new version a little more just to get the hang of the new additions.

[thvaz]

I'm glad Toady will throw a bone for the Megaproject players but will focus on his real objective.

[Buttery_Mess]

Personally I'm loving the change. Forcing me out of the "turtle in" box is good.

On the bug front, however, I think we can say that the wild animal nesting instinct is the new sleeping sickness. Only more hilarious.

Yeah I've got to admit it causes some hilarity. I did laugh when a dwarf working on my fort's ramparts chickened out and scarpered when a turkey started hanging out at the bottom of the wall, where the dwarf was well out of reach. The turkey was in a foul mood because it tried to claim a nest and was frightened off by the domestic animals.

I'm loving bricks. I'm very tempted to build a surface-based industrial town made of brick. Bringing DF kicking and screaming into the century of the fruitbat!

[jeturcotte]

Okay; I have to ask... did I miss a major change in cooking and/or plant processing?  Ever since this version, I've had mass starvation occur very quickly in my fortresses even when cookable materials were plentiful and easy to access.  I did get one spot to butcher everything in side for meat-based meals, but all the old plant recipes seem to be anathema to my dwarves, now... 2nd spot wouldn't even butcher.

Is this a potential bug or did I just miss something new?

[Ledi]

Cross-posting this from the missing metal thread:

Regarding the fighting that has taken place upthread, people should relax and not fight with each other when we are the source of your grievances.  As I acknowledged in the release notes, this is a problem.  The release was split because it was delayed and needed to be aired out.  I cleaned up a lot of the loose (split?) ends, but I only thought of this one at the last moment, so I mentioned it in the notes and plan to sort it out during this bugfix period.  Once we have trade, some assurance that a reasonable amount of ore is being brought to the surface in world gen and better local mineral veins, I imagine it'll be less of a problem, but we don't have any of those things yet.  Even after that, I think we should end up with some world gen options for different play styles for next time.  As people have mentioned, an over-abundance of metals will essentially remove that element of the economy (and warfare etc etc), but not everybody is going to be playing for those reasons and it is very easy for me to fix.  Worlds with some variation in metal distribution will be the ones that receive the most attention over the long term, though.

I've read the rest of the thread and taken down the issues I could find.  The last few days I've been unburying myself from non-programming B12 stuff that has piled up (email etc.)...  that isn't done but I'm not sure I'm ever going to see the bottom of my inbox again anyway.  I should be checking off the first bugs by the end of the day today.  We haven't decided what the release schedule for these bug fix periods is going to look like.  A release usually eats up most of a day, so it might make more sense to do one at the end of the few weeks to get an extra day of bug fixing for every intervening release that is skipped, though obviously that demands a bit more patience.

Thanks for addressing this, Toady, and the fact that you support world gen options makes me smile.

Anything about the embark screen vague/concise, or are we just stuck with the new one?

[Thoranius]

Well, two things of note from todays playtesting.

One, the "stray animal killed by anything other than butchering cannot have it's corpse processed"bug has really been coming to light, especially with the lack of defenses, and my open-air pasture (should of built a ceiling over it instead of just digging it down a z level, but if you roof it in, it's not really a pasture anymore, is it?) with lots of penned in avians and livestock, the goblin arrow ambush rain of doom kept my haulers running unprocessable bodies to my Dwarven atom smasher almost constantly for a while after each ambush.

Two, and I don't know if this is just a rare random event from older versions or new additions, I finally encountered something new while in Fortress mode, "'Waxworker 1' Onulunib, Ghostly Animal Caretaker has risen and is haunting the fortress!"
Best announcement ever. 

[Buttery_Mess]

Okay; I have to ask... did I miss a major change in cooking and/or plant processing?  Ever since this version, I've had mass starvation occur very quickly in my fortresses even when cookable materials were plentiful and easy to access.  I did get one spot to butcher everything in side for meat-based meals, but all the old plant recipes seem to be anathema to my dwarves, now... 2nd spot wouldn't even butcher.

Is this a potential bug or did I just miss something new?

I had quite the opposite, massive overproduction of food. There's a lot more things to eat in this version.

[Kat]

I don't mind less metals, as long as other things are workable.

One of the things I liked in 40d, was making bolts out of goblin bones. With these, my squads of champion marksdwarfs shot the next goblin sieges with. And then collected their armour to make our own iron armour and weaponry, as it turned out there was not much iron on the map that I embarked on, and no flux stones. So steel was valuable.
Might lose a dwarf on occasion, particularly in the early years, when we had just leather armours, but we had many migrants and children to replace them. It was great.

However, in later versions, the performance of leather armours and bone bolts (and crossbows in general?), seems to have fallen off quite a bit. Injuries that are serious enough to render a dwarf non-combat, or worse, non-economic, seem a lot more common too.

A lump of rock on a stick, as a crude war hammer, might be in order, I dunno.

[Farmerbob]

Trolls with wool? I really want to see that . Great work like always Toady!

I'm just trying my best to not imagine where on the trolls the hair is coming from that the goblins are shearing to make into cloth.