Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Rafal99]

The metal scarcity doesn't seem that bad for me.

I have genned my first world, tried the first embark, dug 5 levels down next to my wagon and found native platinium vein inside a magnetite cluster
The site had "Multiple" shallow metals on embark screen.

[agatharchides]

I just thought of something....

Toady always seemed to like the idea of sending an adventurer to a potential site first to scout it out.

Currently doing so will let us know what the soil is and maybe the top layer of rock or so, with what the lower levels are if you can manage to spelunky your way to the site in the caverns.  Combine that with shallow metals and deep metals and some basic geology, and it gives a fairly reasonable idea of what will be at the site.

Once DFHack offsets are found, we could use that with prospector and get a detailed idea of a site before embark.

Just think, adventurers sent by the mountain home, not to save the world, or kill monsters, but to prospect sites for ore!

Huh. That's a good idea. I may have to try out adventure mode now.

[Vorthon]

The metal scarcity doesn't seem that bad for me.

I have genned my first world, tried the first embark, dug 5 levels down next to my wagon and found native platinium vein inside a magnetite cluster
The site had "Multiple" shallow metals on embark screen.

You got lucky, that's all.

[thvaz]

Found a good place with in minutes. Hematite on the surface.  Try to look for shallow metal. Learn to use the site finder. It's great!

[Vorthon]

Found a good place with in minutes. Hematite on the surface.  Try to look for shallow metal. Learn to use the site finder. It's great!

I do use the site finder...

[Torham]

The metal scarcity doesn't seem that bad for me.

I have genned my first world, tried the first embark, dug 5 levels down next to my wagon and found native platinium vein inside a magnetite cluster
The site had "Multiple" shallow metals on embark screen.

You got lucky, that's all.

Well... I did 1 world gen and on my first embark on a tile witch said Shallow metal I have found large deposits of copper and native gold.Now with the whole trade arch implemented I have no fear I would be able to purchase for all this gold some quality armour sets or raw iron. With 3D metal veins, spanning multiple z lvls I would have a ton of gold. I think DF is going back to how it was in 40d. Back then if you have found iron and coal on the same map you were lucky as hell. Most of the time I was relying on goblinite  to fuel my industry, I am sure now goblinite will be replaced by robust trading system.

About the leather armour. I recommend reading Bernard Cornwell The Last Kingdom series. Happening in around 840 AD Britain, his depictions of the lives of ordinary people and royalty are very gripping. Most of the mercenaries and soldiers have just sword or an axe and a wooden shield. Some have leather armour. Uthred (the main hero) was very proud to be wearing leather helmet with bronze circles. Later, he was given rusty Iron mail shirt form the king of Wessex himself. He felt like a true warlord then (hastily utilising it to wreck carnage on the invading Danes). So yes Iron would have been very rare, just because it takes huge amount of effort to mine, smelt and smith it. Now dwarves, being industrial people by nature should have ample supplies or more than anyone, but it should still be so rare, that you have to think: Do I make this iron statute or smelt it into a weapon? What will bring me more value?.

[NW_Kohaku]

Damnit, so many ninjas they black out the sky!

You'll have to learn to be more concise to be first on the spot. 

THEN I'LL POST IN THE SHADE!

... sorry, I couldn't help it.

Might help. In RL Kings and barons who could afford the best used high quality boiled leather in preference to plate for a few centuries.

This would really require either a mod or a suggestion for a second type of leather, I think.

You could make an "armor-grade leather" of hardened leather or a studded leather or something instead of the standard soft leather which is basically like shoe leather or a leather coat right now.

Just make the process more resource-costly, difficult, or time-consuming somehow (like requiring lye in the reaction or something).  Then, you can make a hardened leather material type, give it some material stats, and let players make armor out of it.

It probably can't be a particular animal's leather (the way that it's "Cat leather gloves" right now) if you're altering the materials, unless there's something I don't know about raw mods, but you could at least make a leather material that is worthwile by doing so.

I just thought of something....

Toady always seemed to like the idea of sending an adventurer to a potential site first to scout it out.

Currently doing so will let us know what the soil is and maybe the top layer of rock or so, with what the lower levels are if you can manage to spelunky your way to the site in the caverns.  Combine that with shallow metals and deep metals and some basic geology, and it gives a fairly reasonable idea of what will be at the site.

Once DFHack offsets are found, we could use that with prospector and get a detailed idea of a site before embark.

Just think, adventurers sent by the mountain home, not to save the world, or kill monsters, but to prospect sites for ore!

Yes, but that's... kind of boring for players who don't really want to use Adventurer Mode to be forced to make an adventurer just to prospect for ore for Fortress Mode.

"Adventurer Role: Prospector/Cartographer" (as an extension of "Explorer") might be a good idea - instead of completely leaving areas of the map blank, you just have the contents of the land, aside from potentially basic things like "HERE THERE BE MOUNTAINS!" until explorers hit the spot.  Explorers and Cartographers might make money selling this information on minerals back to the kingdoms of dwarves, and give Fortress Mode players some more information on the areas...

However, there needs to be at least some information on the areas, at least within the "reach" of existing dwarven civilizations, and the sphere of influence of friendly trading partners on the lands and their potential mineral wealth to represent the explorers and prospectors that came before.

That way, at least the areas near the home civ are very well-detailed.

Found a good place with in minutes. Hematite on the surface.  Try to look for shallow metal. Learn to use the site finder. It's great!

The problem is not that "metals are impossible to find", the problem is more that "metals are far more scarce on the world map than they really should be". 

Do a search for "Shallow Metals: None" and "Deep Metals: None" and see what percentage of your world map lights up in green "X" marks.  I'm getting nearly 2/3s of one map to light up with no mineral deposits whatsoever, including an entire mountain range taking up about 1/4 the map, which is where a dwarven civ is locked in.

In 40d, people did plenty of worldgens to find "perfect" embark points with plenty of features.  .31 changed much of that by putting most features everywhere.  Now, we have basic resources missing in most locations that require plenty of worldgens to find "perfect" embark points again.  Except now, it's for looking for worlds that actually have iron deposits that aren't under aquafers or oceans rather than legimately extremely rare things like volcanos and chasms.

[LoSboccacc]

note: the new pasture zone helps a lot resolving the cancelation of milking shearing buthcering and stuff: if you place the workshop in the pasture, it seems that there are no "take them back" jobs generated and no cancellations.

[NW_Kohaku]

With 3D metal veins, spanning multiple z lvls I would have a ton of gold. I think DF is going back to how it was in 40d. Back then if you have found iron and coal on the same map you were lucky as hell. Most of the time I was relying on goblinite  to fuel my industry, I am sure now goblinite will be replaced by robust trading system.

I still do think, however, that this is reason to have an indicator of whether you are embarking on iron or cinnibar ore, however.

You couldn't see "iron" in 40d, but you could see limestone and chalk as two separate layers in a single map, and figure you're probably going to get both coal and iron in the same map.  Now, you've got no idea what you've got, just that there's the extremely remote chance it might be limestone with iron, and I've yet to hear of anyone striking coal. 

I think right now, there are "gem veins" and veins of other things that are just completely invisible to the player until you actually start mining, and this includes microcline and coal deposits, and there's absolutely no way whatsoever to tell if there are coal deposits around until you actually strike them. 

In 40d, it was rare to find a site with everything you wanted on a single map... but you would at least know when you found it.  Now you've got no earthly clue what you have.

People who want their survival challenges can certainly have them - embarking on a glacier that has no wood, no food, no flux, no coal, and nothing of any tradable value except layers of mudstone and some granite at bedrock, with the bluemetal turned off or house-ruled away from being used certainly can enjoy a tougher challenge now, and all the power to them.

But realistically, your mining expedition should be able to know at least one resource they are looking for on purpose (and may get surprised with more) when they set up a serious mining operation.  They should know that there's iron in them thar hills before they set up an iron mine, and if they happen to find coal or gems while they're there by surpise, that's great, but they have to know there's iron there for them to have interest in searching for it to begin with.

I'd honestly like to see an expansion of the finder that lets you search for particular ore veins.  Actually, maybe make this a "Legends Mode Cheat Map" if you have to.  Just show me where in the world the iron veins are, where the coal deposits are, where the whatever veins are.  It gives us a greater ability to playtest the whole game, for one thing.  Hide it so the "hardcore" players don't have to ever see it, and let the "cheaters" who want to see how the game really ticks analyze their surroundings, and talk about how to make a more natural world.

[agatharchides]

This would really require either a mod or a suggestion for a second type of leather, I think.

You could make an "armor-grade leather" of hardened leather or a studded leather or something instead of the standard soft leather which is basically like shoe leather or a leather coat right now.

Just make the process more resource-costly, difficult, or time-consuming somehow (like requiring lye in the reaction or something).  Then, you can make a hardened leather material type, give it some material stats, and let players make armor out of it.

It probably can't be a particular animal's leather (the way that it's "Cat leather gloves" right now) if you're altering the materials, unless there's something I don't know about raw mods, but you could at least make a leather material that is worthwile by doing so.

Wax. It is somewhat controversial if water or wax was used, and people have recreated useable armor with both substances. But you could call it wax. I agree leather working as well as steel would be OP, and if dwarf armor is cap a pie steel plate unrealistic. Boiled leather was used in the transitional period. But this is probably something for another thread.

 And I agree some more information would be nice. This was people will just embark-scum and that is tedious for the same result.

[Orkel]

Making leather armor require many steps to make, but making them slightly worse than iron might be a fine balance.

[Urist is dead tome]

I have generated several worlds now and there seems to be a problem with the raws. Humans, elves and dwarves have been replaced with ogres, unicorns and trolls.

On the neighbors screen there is dragons, trolls, moghoppers(?) and ogres.

In conclusion: What's with that?

[NW_Kohaku]

I have generated several worlds now and there seems to be a problem with the raws. Humans, elves and dwarves have been replaced with ogres, unicorns and trolls.

On the neighbors screen there is dragons, trolls, moghoppers(?) and ogres.

In conclusion: What's with that?

Sounds like a raw duplicate problem.

Did you do something like copy raw files over into your game? 

Wax. It is somewhat controversial if water or wax was used, and people have recreated useable armor with both substances. But you could call it wax. I agree leather working as well as steel would be OP, and if dwarf armor is cap a pie steel plate unrealistic. Boiled leather was used in the transitional period. But this is probably something for another thread.

 And I agree some more information would be nice. This was people will just embark-scum and that is tedious for the same result.

Well, you can try to make a quickie suggestion thread on it.  Actually, quick search finds a recent thread that is suitable for expansion: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=76369.msg1937740#msg1937740  It's about how tanning could use some more depth to it, and is fairly short.

I've not done any research on the topic, but if you can make beeswax into a useful leather-armor making material, that could be a cool new industry expansion.

[Urist is dead tome]

I have generated several worlds now and there seems to be a problem with the raws. Humans, elves and dwarves have been replaced with ogres, unicorns and trolls.

On the neighbors screen there is dragons, trolls, moghoppers(?) and ogres.

In conclusion: What's with that?

Sounds like a raw duplicate problem.

Did you do something like copy raw files over into your game? 

I did not even look at the raws at the time I found this.

[G-Flex]

And you unzipped the new version into its own folder? And didn't copy anything over from any other version, including saves?