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Author Topic: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Game Over: Be Ashamed. Be Very Ashamed.  (Read 58166 times)

lordnincompoop

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
« Reply #210 on: February 21, 2011, 02:49:47 pm »

Second line was for Japa though
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Supercharazad

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
« Reply #211 on: February 21, 2011, 02:53:25 pm »

while Saint and Super duke it out in a pissing match.

How? Explain please.

I voted SaintDraze for:

He was excited when you did not see me vote you, before I did (Realised he made a mistake, thought he was off the hook)
He totally gave up (scumtell in the scumtell list, in the OP)
He randomly insults me, to get me angry, so I'll make mistakes (he stopped... right after I told him it wasn't working -.-)



Also:

Japa: What were YOUR reasons for voting SaintDraze?
LordNincompoop: What were YOUR reasons for voting SaintDraze?
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Tyberix

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
« Reply #212 on: February 21, 2011, 03:01:40 pm »

Lordnincompoop: Well it's hard to say if it's another of their towny foolishness or maybe something else. Both of them got pretty emotional to something that started as RVS but , well you know how similar  it was previous game :\ If i had to choose one of them to lynch i would say that supercharazad is more suspicious, he acts if he really wanted to get his attack on apparently not so easy target - without concentrating on why he attacks him, he just do it (not even attacks him for what he says - just like he thought of this beforehand) ? SaintDraze in my opinion just go on with the flow without real goal in mind (not that it's a good thing ;p), even if he stated he wants to provoke super it just looked like very bad idea for scumhunt. Both acted scummy though so it's arguable who is more likely to be one.

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Rose

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
« Reply #213 on: February 21, 2011, 03:04:46 pm »

What do you consider evidence?

Good question. I don't know, but I'll know it when I see it.

How? Explain please.

Japa: What were YOUR reasons for voting SaintDraze?

I see both of you attacking each other for reasons that don't appear (to me, at least) to have any relevance to actually finding scum, and fit more into the category of personal attacks. while incredibly annoying, it doesn't actually incriminate either of you.
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lordnincompoop

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
« Reply #214 on: February 21, 2011, 03:05:59 pm »

while Saint and Super duke it out in a pissing match.

How? Explain please.

I voted SaintDraze for:

He was excited when you did not see me vote you, before I did (Realised he made a mistake, thought he was off the hook)
He totally gave up (scumtell in the scumtell list, in the OP)
He randomly insults me, to get me angry, so I'll make mistakes (he stopped... right after I told him it wasn't working -.-)



Also:

Japa: What were YOUR reasons for voting SaintDraze?
LordNincompoop: What were YOUR reasons for voting SaintDraze?


Super, what I want you to post is more than a few words for each (a paragraph for each, maybe), and provide specific examples such as quotes. Three sentences will not do.

I'm not voting for Saint; I'm voting for you. My reasons for previously voting Saint:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I haven't organised or made any proper analysis for this, because I felt it was enough during RV and other people posted nearly the same reasoning as me. I plan to do that later.

If you want me to formulate some new reasoning for my previous vote, go ahead and ask.

You've been highly involved in this conflict, and you've been rather emotional through it. An analysis and proper quote-point stuff would help to strengthen your stance, convince us of your coherence, and help organise the argument.
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lordnincompoop

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
« Reply #215 on: February 21, 2011, 03:08:51 pm »

How? Explain please.

Japa: What were YOUR reasons for voting SaintDraze?

I see both of you attacking each other for reasons that don't appear (to me, at least) to have any relevance to actually finding scum, and fit more into the category of personal attacks. while incredibly annoying, it doesn't actually incriminate either of you.

To me, this would be evidence, especially if they seemed to be aware of it. Arguments must have relevance to the goal at hand, and doing this will distract us from that.

It also shows that they are unable to find good arguments, which is another piece of evidence. Under analysis, you can often find many points.
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Rose

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
« Reply #216 on: February 21, 2011, 03:19:04 pm »

Yes, but that evidence applies equally to both of them, so my choices at this point are either to vote one randomly, or with-hold my vote until one of them comes out on top.

since it's almost 2 am, I'm not really in a condition to search through both of their posts to find which one has more incriminating evidence, so I'm just gonna throw out a partially random, partially gut feeling, vote.

Supercharazad
SaintDraze
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Supercharazad

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
« Reply #217 on: February 21, 2011, 03:26:28 pm »

Yes, but that evidence applies equally to both of them, so my choices at this point are either to vote one randomly, or with-hold my vote until one of them comes out on top.

since it's almost 2 am, I'm not really in a condition to search through both of their posts to find which one has more incriminating evidence, so I'm just gonna throw out a partially random, partially gut feeling, vote.

Supercharazad
SaintDraze

In other words, you don't have a reason for voting us other than each of us thinking the other is scum?
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Jim Groovester

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
« Reply #218 on: February 21, 2011, 03:39:55 pm »

Jim,Lordnincompoop : Well,i wouldn't call it fascination,but i feel that asking for NK beforehand is better than WIFoming afterwards,also to be clear i asked about it only twice, that's not that much. Also i still have no idea what question is good one for D1 - we got no solid information at this point so i try catch as many inconsistencies as i can and ask about them, and by accident ( or not  :P) super "plan" was highly dependent on NK so asking about it seemed natural.

Well, not too much activity =  town fail so i hope other post soon  ::)

'Sup scum.

Why'd you feel the need to respond to my idle remark about you and your fascination with the nightkill? I would've been perfectly content if you had let it pass. But, you didn't and now I'm interested and very curious.

Lordnincompoop: Well it's hard to say if it's another of their towny foolishness or maybe something else. Both of them got pretty emotional to something that started as RVS but , well you know how similar  it was previous game :\ If i had to choose one of them to lynch i would say that supercharazad is more suspicious, he acts if he really wanted to get his attack on apparently not so easy target - without concentrating on why he attacks him, he just do it (not even attacks him for what he says - just like he thought of this beforehand) ? SaintDraze in my opinion just go on with the flow without real goal in mind (not that it's a good thing ;p), even if he stated he wants to provoke super it just looked like very bad idea for scumhunt. Both acted scummy though so it's arguable who is more likely to be one.

As I recall, you're voting for Akivara. So if you think Supercharazad is more suspicious why is your vote where it is?
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Toaster

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
« Reply #219 on: February 21, 2011, 03:59:26 pm »

Tyberix:  OK then. 

[Be sure to double check your facts.]


[Nightkills in general:  I'd like to stress again that there is little reason to use them to pick out scum.  Scum can easily pick the "unlikely" target to throw you off, or they could take the obvious choice.  It's all WIFOM, and you should largely disregard it.  Therefore, the logical answer to any "What would you do different if player X is nightkilled?" question is "Nothing different- continue to scumhunt."]


LNCP:

Drawing scum attention, then getting yourself assassinated, is bad. However, it shouldn't stop good play.

You can't attack and scumhunt without drawing attention.

I disagree with your premise but not your conclusion.  Townies do not fear death, because getting the attention of scum means you are worrying them, and you worry scum by being a good scumhunter and figuring them out.

[Corollary to this:  Remember what I said above- just because someone got NKed doesn't mean they were right.  It should just tell you that they were being honest with their intentions, not that their targets were correct.]

As for your question to me:  The situation is decent.  We have a fair amount of info and most people are putting in decent participation.  I think the start bodes well for the town.

Scumpicks:  #1 is Super, obviously.  His defensiveness with regards to Saint's RV and noncommittal posts on the subject, plus his unwillingness to vote Saint over his issues with him, bug me.  He then didn't back up his suspicions well.  I think I've made my case on him clear enough.

SaintDraze is spazzy and jumps all over the place, but something in my gut is telling me his intentions aren't malign.  He's far from having me convinced, but I'm not sold on his case.

Japa is too casual with his vote, and I've got a question for him.


Japa:  You've voted Super.  If he flipped town, what would that do to your suspicion of SaintDraze?


[I'm trying to be transparent with my suspicions here.  I'm not as open about Japa because I'm questioning him.  Letting him know the intent behind my question too much will give him clues how to answer it if he's scum.  If he's town, he can just answer it honestly and be fine.]



Web, can we get a vote count?
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HMR stands for Hazardous Materials Requisition, not Horrible Massive Ruination, though I can understand how one could get confused.
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Tyberix

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
« Reply #220 on: February 21, 2011, 04:05:41 pm »

Jim,Lordnincompoop : Well,i wouldn't call it fascination,but i feel that asking for NK beforehand is better than WIFoming afterwards,also to be clear i asked about it only twice, that's not that much. Also i still have no idea what question is good one for D1 - we got no solid information at this point so i try catch as many inconsistencies as i can and ask about them, and by accident ( or not  :P) super "plan" was highly dependent on NK so asking about it seemed natural.

Well, not too much activity =  town fail so i hope other post soon  ::)

'Sup scum.

Why'd you feel the need to respond to my idle remark about you and your fascination with the nightkill? I would've been perfectly content if you had let it pass. But, you didn't and now I'm interested and very curious.

Lordnincompoop: Well it's hard to say if it's another of their towny foolishness or maybe something else. Both of them got pretty emotional to something that started as RVS but , well you know how similar  it was previous game :\ If i had to choose one of them to lynch i would say that supercharazad is more suspicious, he acts if he really wanted to get his attack on apparently not so easy target - without concentrating on why he attacks him, he just do it (not even attacks him for what he says - just like he thought of this beforehand) ? SaintDraze in my opinion just go on with the flow without real goal in mind (not that it's a good thing ;p), even if he stated he wants to provoke super it just looked like very bad idea for scumhunt. Both acted scummy though so it's arguable who is more likely to be one.

As I recall, you're voting for Akivara. So if you think Supercharazad is more suspicious why is your vote where it is?

a) There was nothing happening and post that answer question (that was asked twice)  is better than null post don't you think ? Unless you want to hear who likes pie more or some wifom ? That would be good for you as a scum, right ?
b)I meant who of these two is more suspicious  - not who i find most scummy. Also if akivara don't post explaination changing vote would be without real purpose - the border between normal and scummy behavior in super and saint case is blurry enough to not vote on only "scum feel" on one of them. Unless you want me to vote them since you know neither of them is scum ?
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webadict

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
« Reply #221 on: February 21, 2011, 04:34:15 pm »

Just so everyone knows, Ottofar has replaced Akivara, who has become unable to play.

Just... pretend that's how it always was.
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Jim Groovester

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
« Reply #222 on: February 21, 2011, 04:36:28 pm »

I was testing your reaction.

You reacted poorly.

a) There was nothing happening and post that answer question (that was asked twice)  is better than null post don't you think ? Unless you want to hear who likes pie more or some wifom ? That would be good for you as a scum, right ?

So what would have been too many times? Five times? Asking 'only' twice is not an acceptable explanation, and asking about it because nothing else is going is also not an acceptable explanation. Regardless of how many times you ask, it still shows that you've got an interest in the night kill. Now who would have that? Scum, that's who.

Add onto that how you rushed to your own defense at my idle comment, and how you suddenly are calling me scum because I called you scum, it becomes pretty clear: Not only are you interested in the nightkill, but you're nervous about anyone thinking that you are.

All scummy.

The next time somebody calls you scum to test your reaction, play it cool.

b)I meant who of these two is more suspicious  - not who i find most scummy. Also if akivara don't post explaination changing vote would be without real purpose - the border between normal and scummy behavior in super and saint case is blurry enough to not vote on only "scum feel" on one of them. Unless you want me to vote them since you know neither of them is scum ?

So who do you find most scummy, if it's apparently not SaintDraze and Supercharazad?
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Tyberix

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
« Reply #223 on: February 21, 2011, 05:07:03 pm »

I was testing your reaction.

You reacted poorly.

a) There was nothing happening and post that answer question (that was asked twice)  is better than null post don't you think ? Unless you want to hear who likes pie more or some wifom ? That would be good for you as a scum, right ?

So what would have been too many times? Five times? Asking 'only' twice is not an acceptable explanation, and asking about it because nothing else is going is also not an acceptable explanation. Regardless of how many times you ask, it still shows that you've got an interest in the night kill. Now who would have that? Scum, that's who.

Add onto that how you rushed to your own defense at my idle comment, and how you suddenly are calling me scum because I called you scum, it becomes pretty clear: Not only are you interested in the nightkill, but you're nervous about anyone thinking that you are.

All scummy.

The next time somebody calls you scum to test your reaction, play it cool.

b)I meant who of these two is more suspicious  - not who i find most scummy. Also if akivara don't post explaination changing vote would be without real purpose - the border between normal and scummy behavior in super and saint case is blurry enough to not vote on only "scum feel" on one of them. Unless you want me to vote them since you know neither of them is scum ?

So who do you find most scummy, if it's apparently not SaintDraze and Supercharazad?

Well i am interested in nightkill,i fail to see what's scummy in that. We should leave all possible questions about them ? I don't see any reason in that, also you mix my answer and NK questions in one assault. I never said that i asked about NK because nothing else was going on,that was about your "respond to idle remark". Rushing to defense : well if someone calls me scum for no apparent reason i try to prove them wrong, isn't that what's that game is about ? Or should i ignore all your attacks ? Also  "testing you reaction" is not necessary, it could be used in any situation to excuse inconvenient question or answer.

Well,i have to reread the thread since Akivara was replaced. I'm sure voting Ottofar before he speaks out isn't right thing to do so :Unvote

Second place is supercharazad so few questions for him :
while Saint and Super duke it out in a pissing match.

How? Explain please.

I voted SaintDraze for:

He was excited when you did not see me vote you, before I did (Realised he made a mistake, thought he was off the hook)
He totally gave up (scumtell in the scumtell list, in the OP)
He randomly insults me, to get me angry, so I'll make mistakes (he stopped... right after I told him it wasn't working -.-)



Also:

Japa: What were YOUR reasons for voting SaintDraze?
LordNincompoop: What were YOUR reasons for voting SaintDraze?

Why you search for more evidence to attack SaintDraze (that's how i understand last two questions) ? Or you want to undermine other's faith in their votes - that should be done by evidence not like that. How fact that he stopped insulting you is scumtell ?
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webadict

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Re: [SIGN-UPS: FULL!] Beginner's Mafia XXI
« Reply #224 on: February 21, 2011, 05:26:05 pm »

Vote Count
------------------------
lordnincompoop -
SaintDraze - Painiac, Akivara, Jim Groovester, supercharazad, SaintDraze,
Akivara -
Japa -
Tyberix -
supercharazad - Toaster, lordnincompoop, Japa,
Painiac -
Toaster -
Jim Groovester -

Not Voting - Tyberix,

Day Ends Monday 9 PM Central.
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