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[lordnincompoop]

Second line was for Japa though

[Supercharazad]

while Saint and Super duke it out in a pissing match.

How? Explain please.

I voted SaintDraze for:

He was excited when you did not see me vote you, before I did (Realised he made a mistake, thought he was off the hook)
He totally gave up (scumtell in the scumtell list, in the OP)
He randomly insults me, to get me angry, so I'll make mistakes (he stopped... right after I told him it wasn't working -.-)



Also:

Japa: What were YOUR reasons for voting SaintDraze?
LordNincompoop: What were YOUR reasons for voting SaintDraze?

[Tyberix]

Lordnincompoop: Well it's hard to say if it's another of their towny foolishness or maybe something else. Both of them got pretty emotional to something that started as RVS but , well you know how similar  it was previous game :\ If i had to choose one of them to lynch i would say that supercharazad is more suspicious, he acts if he really wanted to get his attack on apparently not so easy target - without concentrating on why he attacks him, he just do it (not even attacks him for what he says - just like he thought of this beforehand) ? SaintDraze in my opinion just go on with the flow without real goal in mind (not that it's a good thing ;p), even if he stated he wants to provoke super it just looked like very bad idea for scumhunt. Both acted scummy though so it's arguable who is more likely to be one.

[Rose]

What do you consider evidence?

Good question. I don't know, but I'll know it when I see it.

How? Explain please.

Japa: What were YOUR reasons for voting SaintDraze?

I see both of you attacking each other for reasons that don't appear (to me, at least) to have any relevance to actually finding scum, and fit more into the category of personal attacks. while incredibly annoying, it doesn't actually incriminate either of you.

[lordnincompoop]

while Saint and Super duke it out in a pissing match.

How? Explain please.

I voted SaintDraze for:

He was excited when you did not see me vote you, before I did (Realised he made a mistake, thought he was off the hook)
He totally gave up (scumtell in the scumtell list, in the OP)
He randomly insults me, to get me angry, so I'll make mistakes (he stopped... right after I told him it wasn't working -.-)



Also:

Japa: What were YOUR reasons for voting SaintDraze?
LordNincompoop: What were YOUR reasons for voting SaintDraze?

Super, what I want you to post is more than a few words for each (a paragraph for each, maybe), and provide specific examples such as quotes. Three sentences will not do.

I'm not voting for Saint; I'm voting for you. My reasons for previously voting Saint:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And how are you planning on doing that? Do you know how to pressure? If so, why are you not doing it?

I'd rather not draw scum attention (that is, the attention of the scum) too much this early on.  But if you think I can do a better job pressuring, do you have any advice?

Anyway, I'm going to go read through what I missed and see what I can find.

Why not? As town, our job is to hunt, not to survive. If we die, will simply win with the rest.

I haven't seen you pressure, so I can't comment on that yet.

Lord:  Now how would Jim know if Japa is a cop?  IC gets no more information than a non-IC.

He wouldn't, other than via deduction. I think it's far too early for any role to pop up.

Because A spazzing noob usually ruins the day...and the days that follow if he isn't lynched...
I voted super because I wanted to see if he'd spazz out so I would kinda know what to expect...
as for asking that question, I already got a satisfactory answer...
and I Take it as a yes, If super does spazz LP's going to lynch vote him...
Unless of course someone roleclaims godfather...

Wait.... Oh shit, My bad then Book...
Annnd there goes most of my Mentionable reasons for how I scum pick people...
Shit...

Well I think false roleclaims just postpone the inevitable, True roleclaims have a tendancy to rush nights
and claiming scum is just hilariously stupid...

And jim, I don't want super to spazz, But testing super to see if he does spazz this early in the game will let me be more sure of what I am doing later in the game...

I myself see the beginning of d1 as info gathering and Then Finding scum is the main priorit for the rest of the game...

You shouldn't vote a person just to see them spazz out. The reason you vote is to pressure and hunt scum, not to poke noobs and hurt your team.

If you don't want him to "spazz", then don't force him to. This playing against your team, which is very suspicious in my eyes.

That's how I talk...Jim......................................

The way I see it, the game will go two ways, one way is that Super doesn't freak out and ruin the game for town
and the other is a downward spiral of stupid shit...If its going to happen eventually Then why not as soon as possible to see if Super has a cooldown timer for any later games I am in with him...
And It was just a Poke,because
I was Only gauging his reaction...

It certainly seems that way...
I really regret poking the bear now...

by spazzing I mean doing this,"WHY U OMGUSING ME I DIDN'T Do NOthing! !#$@!%!#@$@! U IS SCUM YAEUP YOU IS SCUMMMMM!!! ScUMM SCUMY SCum!!!!!!"

I'd lych someone like that, Even if it mean I was Lynched too... Anything to make sure I don't have to deal with that kind of shit...

Anyhow I thought I had to test Super to test how easy it would be to rile him up.
He's learning alittle.But not much apparantly... Did you see how easy he was, calling me scum because I voted him first? He should have asked why I didn't ask a question with my vote...

You're backtracking rather quickly, aren't you?

We're here to lynch scum and learn, not execute stupid people. In fact, the BM games are here to teach those stupid people.

SaintDraze, you're acting extremely suspicious, and quite frankly it's not surprising to see you on somebody's scumlist. That does not make it an OMGUS.

Okay then...
F%#!@$ this, going to focus on Kingmaker 4, at least I haven't dug myself into a hole in that game, Let someone else take my place
Replace me please

You can't just give up whenever you run into trouble. This is an awful habit, and you won't learn if you keep doing this.

No matter how deep the hole is, there's a way out. If you refuse to do so, you'll die in it even if it's only knee deep.

Lord:  Your vote is on SaintDraze from way back in RV.  Do you still find him voteworthy or have your suspicions of him changed?

Buh, sorry I've been procrastinating on this game too long. I maintain my vote, because he's just been acting worse, as you can see above.

lordincompoop How you know that SaintDraze's assault on Supercharazad is "playing against own team " ? You know their alignments ?

Knowing their alignments doesn't have anything to do with it. It's the intent.

SaintDraze is voting out Super not because he believes Super is scum, but because he feels Super will "spazz" later on. This is playing against his own team because he is trying to lynch (relatively) unsuspected town instead of lynching scum, which is what we're supposed to do.

Now Painiac

...

You are being rather aggressive accusing anyone that has a doubt of me being scum of being my scum buddy...

SaintDraze, stop fabricating information. Painiac's done that one, not several times.

"That won't help you at all if I wind up getting lynched..."? What is this even supposed to mean? Do I detect blackmail?

I haven't organised or made any proper analysis for this, because I felt it was enough during RV and other people posted nearly the same reasoning as me. I plan to do that later.

If you want me to formulate some new reasoning for my previous vote, go ahead and ask.

You've been highly involved in this conflict, and you've been rather emotional through it. An analysis and proper quote-point stuff would help to strengthen your stance, convince us of your coherence, and help organise the argument.

[lordnincompoop]

How? Explain please.

Japa: What were YOUR reasons for voting SaintDraze?

I see both of you attacking each other for reasons that don't appear (to me, at least) to have any relevance to actually finding scum, and fit more into the category of personal attacks. while incredibly annoying, it doesn't actually incriminate either of you.

To me, this would be evidence, especially if they seemed to be aware of it. Arguments must have relevance to the goal at hand, and doing this will distract us from that.

It also shows that they are unable to find good arguments, which is another piece of evidence. Under analysis, you can often find many points.

[Rose]

Yes, but that evidence applies equally to both of them, so my choices at this point are either to vote one randomly, or with-hold my vote until one of them comes out on top.

since it's almost 2 am, I'm not really in a condition to search through both of their posts to find which one has more incriminating evidence, so I'm just gonna throw out a partially random, partially gut feeling, vote.

Supercharazad
SaintDraze

[Supercharazad]

Yes, but that evidence applies equally to both of them, so my choices at this point are either to vote one randomly, or with-hold my vote until one of them comes out on top.

since it's almost 2 am, I'm not really in a condition to search through both of their posts to find which one has more incriminating evidence, so I'm just gonna throw out a partially random, partially gut feeling, vote.

Supercharazad
SaintDraze

In other words, you don't have a reason for voting us other than each of us thinking the other is scum?

[Jim Groovester]

Jim,Lordnincompoop : Well,i wouldn't call it fascination,but i feel that asking for NK beforehand is better than WIFoming afterwards,also to be clear i asked about it only twice, that's not that much. Also i still have no idea what question is good one for D1 - we got no solid information at this point so i try catch as many inconsistencies as i can and ask about them, and by accident ( or not  ) super "plan" was highly dependent on NK so asking about it seemed natural.

Well, not too much activity =  town fail so i hope other post soon 

'Sup scum.

Why'd you feel the need to respond to my idle remark about you and your fascination with the nightkill? I would've been perfectly content if you had let it pass. But, you didn't and now I'm interested and very curious.

Lordnincompoop: Well it's hard to say if it's another of their towny foolishness or maybe something else. Both of them got pretty emotional to something that started as RVS but , well you know how similar  it was previous game :\ If i had to choose one of them to lynch i would say that supercharazad is more suspicious, he acts if he really wanted to get his attack on apparently not so easy target - without concentrating on why he attacks him, he just do it (not even attacks him for what he says - just like he thought of this beforehand) ? SaintDraze in my opinion just go on with the flow without real goal in mind (not that it's a good thing ;p), even if he stated he wants to provoke super it just looked like very bad idea for scumhunt. Both acted scummy though so it's arguable who is more likely to be one.

As I recall, you're voting for Akivara. So if you think Supercharazad is more suspicious why is your vote where it is?

[Toaster]

Tyberix:  OK then. 

[Be sure to double check your facts.]


[Nightkills in general:  I'd like to stress again that there is little reason to use them to pick out scum.  Scum can easily pick the "unlikely" target to throw you off, or they could take the obvious choice.  It's all WIFOM, and you should largely disregard it.  Therefore, the logical answer to any "What would you do different if player X is nightkilled?" question is "Nothing different- continue to scumhunt."]


LNCP:

Drawing scum attention, then getting yourself assassinated, is bad. However, it shouldn't stop good play.

You can't attack and scumhunt without drawing attention.

I disagree with your premise but not your conclusion.  Townies do not fear death, because getting the attention of scum means you are worrying them, and you worry scum by being a good scumhunter and figuring them out.

[Corollary to this:  Remember what I said above- just because someone got NKed doesn't mean they were right.  It should just tell you that they were being honest with their intentions, not that their targets were correct.]

As for your question to me:  The situation is decent.  We have a fair amount of info and most people are putting in decent participation.  I think the start bodes well for the town.

Scumpicks:  #1 is Super, obviously.  His defensiveness with regards to Saint's RV and noncommittal posts on the subject, plus his unwillingness to vote Saint over his issues with him, bug me.  He then didn't back up his suspicions well.  I think I've made my case on him clear enough.

SaintDraze is spazzy and jumps all over the place, but something in my gut is telling me his intentions aren't malign.  He's far from having me convinced, but I'm not sold on his case.

Japa is too casual with his vote, and I've got a question for him.


Japa:  You've voted Super.  If he flipped town, what would that do to your suspicion of SaintDraze?


[I'm trying to be transparent with my suspicions here.  I'm not as open about Japa because I'm questioning him.  Letting him know the intent behind my question too much will give him clues how to answer it if he's scum.  If he's town, he can just answer it honestly and be fine.]



Web, can we get a vote count?

[Tyberix]

Jim,Lordnincompoop : Well,i wouldn't call it fascination,but i feel that asking for NK beforehand is better than WIFoming afterwards,also to be clear i asked about it only twice, that's not that much. Also i still have no idea what question is good one for D1 - we got no solid information at this point so i try catch as many inconsistencies as i can and ask about them, and by accident ( or not  ) super "plan" was highly dependent on NK so asking about it seemed natural.

Well, not too much activity =  town fail so i hope other post soon 

'Sup scum.

Why'd you feel the need to respond to my idle remark about you and your fascination with the nightkill? I would've been perfectly content if you had let it pass. But, you didn't and now I'm interested and very curious.

Lordnincompoop: Well it's hard to say if it's another of their towny foolishness or maybe something else. Both of them got pretty emotional to something that started as RVS but , well you know how similar  it was previous game :\ If i had to choose one of them to lynch i would say that supercharazad is more suspicious, he acts if he really wanted to get his attack on apparently not so easy target - without concentrating on why he attacks him, he just do it (not even attacks him for what he says - just like he thought of this beforehand) ? SaintDraze in my opinion just go on with the flow without real goal in mind (not that it's a good thing ;p), even if he stated he wants to provoke super it just looked like very bad idea for scumhunt. Both acted scummy though so it's arguable who is more likely to be one.

As I recall, you're voting for Akivara. So if you think Supercharazad is more suspicious why is your vote where it is?

a) There was nothing happening and post that answer question (that was asked twice)  is better than null post don't you think ? Unless you want to hear who likes pie more or some wifom ? That would be good for you as a scum, right ?
b)I meant who of these two is more suspicious  - not who i find most scummy. Also if akivara don't post explaination changing vote would be without real purpose - the border between normal and scummy behavior in super and saint case is blurry enough to not vote on only "scum feel" on one of them. Unless you want me to vote them since you know neither of them is scum ?

[webadict]

Just so everyone knows, Ottofar has replaced Akivara, who has become unable to play.

Just... pretend that's how it always was.

[Jim Groovester]

I was testing your reaction.

You reacted poorly.

a) There was nothing happening and post that answer question (that was asked twice)  is better than null post don't you think ? Unless you want to hear who likes pie more or some wifom ? That would be good for you as a scum, right ?

So what would have been too many times? Five times? Asking 'only' twice is not an acceptable explanation, and asking about it because nothing else is going is also not an acceptable explanation. Regardless of how many times you ask, it still shows that you've got an interest in the night kill. Now who would have that? Scum, that's who.

Add onto that how you rushed to your own defense at my idle comment, and how you suddenly are calling me scum because I called you scum, it becomes pretty clear: Not only are you interested in the nightkill, but you're nervous about anyone thinking that you are.

All scummy.

The next time somebody calls you scum to test your reaction, play it cool.

b)I meant who of these two is more suspicious  - not who i find most scummy. Also if akivara don't post explaination changing vote would be without real purpose - the border between normal and scummy behavior in super and saint case is blurry enough to not vote on only "scum feel" on one of them. Unless you want me to vote them since you know neither of them is scum ?

So who do you find most scummy, if it's apparently not SaintDraze and Supercharazad?

[Tyberix]

I was testing your reaction.

You reacted poorly.

a) There was nothing happening and post that answer question (that was asked twice)  is better than null post don't you think ? Unless you want to hear who likes pie more or some wifom ? That would be good for you as a scum, right ?

So what would have been too many times? Five times? Asking 'only' twice is not an acceptable explanation, and asking about it because nothing else is going is also not an acceptable explanation. Regardless of how many times you ask, it still shows that you've got an interest in the night kill. Now who would have that? Scum, that's who.

Add onto that how you rushed to your own defense at my idle comment, and how you suddenly are calling me scum because I called you scum, it becomes pretty clear: Not only are you interested in the nightkill, but you're nervous about anyone thinking that you are.

All scummy.

The next time somebody calls you scum to test your reaction, play it cool.

b)I meant who of these two is more suspicious  - not who i find most scummy. Also if akivara don't post explaination changing vote would be without real purpose - the border between normal and scummy behavior in super and saint case is blurry enough to not vote on only "scum feel" on one of them. Unless you want me to vote them since you know neither of them is scum ?

So who do you find most scummy, if it's apparently not SaintDraze and Supercharazad?

Well i am interested in nightkill,i fail to see what's scummy in that. We should leave all possible questions about them ? I don't see any reason in that, also you mix my answer and NK questions in one assault. I never said that i asked about NK because nothing else was going on,that was about your "respond to idle remark". Rushing to defense : well if someone calls me scum for no apparent reason i try to prove them wrong, isn't that what's that game is about ? Or should i ignore all your attacks ? Also  "testing you reaction" is not necessary, it could be used in any situation to excuse inconvenient question or answer.

Well,i have to reread the thread since Akivara was replaced. I'm sure voting Ottofar before he speaks out isn't right thing to do so :Unvote

Second place is supercharazad so few questions for him :

while Saint and Super duke it out in a pissing match.

How? Explain please.

I voted SaintDraze for:

He was excited when you did not see me vote you, before I did (Realised he made a mistake, thought he was off the hook)
He totally gave up (scumtell in the scumtell list, in the OP)
He randomly insults me, to get me angry, so I'll make mistakes (he stopped... right after I told him it wasn't working -.-)



Also:

Japa: What were YOUR reasons for voting SaintDraze?
LordNincompoop: What were YOUR reasons for voting SaintDraze?

Why you search for more evidence to attack SaintDraze (that's how i understand last two questions) ? Or you want to undermine other's faith in their votes - that should be done by evidence not like that. How fact that he stopped insulting you is scumtell ?

[webadict]

Vote Count
------------------------
lordnincompoop -
SaintDraze - Painiac, Akivara, Jim Groovester, supercharazad, SaintDraze,
Akivara -
Japa -
Tyberix -
supercharazad - Toaster, lordnincompoop, Japa,
Painiac -
Toaster -
Jim Groovester -

Not Voting - Tyberix,

Day Ends Monday 9 PM Central.