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Author Topic: What you DONT want in DF?  (Read 30008 times)

Nikov

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Re: What you DONT want in DF?
« Reply #120 on: February 21, 2011, 11:58:14 am »

I don't want a full-out agriculture simulation. SimFarm is where I draw the line.
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Interus

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Re: What you DONT want in DF?
« Reply #121 on: February 21, 2011, 02:01:55 pm »

The need to maintain an air supply in lower levels.  It seems kind of like unnecessary work.  But mostly I don't want to have to connect those pipes large enough to walk through that Toady has mentioned to the surface.  Then vent zombies can get in, and the last thing I need is monsters watching my dwarves while they sleep.

Admittedly, they'd probably be less scary in the game, but the very idea of vent zombies terrifies me.
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Stone Wera

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Re: What you DONT want in DF?
« Reply #122 on: February 21, 2011, 02:09:09 pm »

The need to maintain an air supply in lower levels.  It seems kind of like unnecessary work.  But mostly I don't want to have to connect those pipes large enough to walk through that Toady has mentioned to the surface.  Then vent zombies can get in, and the last thing I need is monsters watching my dwarves while they sleep.

Admittedly, they'd probably be less scary in the game, but the very idea of vent zombies terrifies me.

Don't worry, a wall/floor grate will prevent them from getting in. You're safe.
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: What you DONT want in DF?
« Reply #123 on: February 21, 2011, 03:00:35 pm »

The need to maintain an air supply in lower levels.  It seems kind of like unnecessary work.  But mostly I don't want to have to connect those pipes large enough to walk through that Toady has mentioned to the surface.  Then vent zombies can get in, and the last thing I need is monsters watching my dwarves while they sleep.

Admittedly, they'd probably be less scary in the game, but the very idea of vent zombies terrifies me.

Don't worry, a wall/floor grate will prevent them from getting in. You're safe.

Quote from: The voice from the vents
Yeeeeeessssssss... Yoooouuuu saaaaaafe.  Noooow sleeeeep.
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Personally, I like [DF] because after climbing the damned learning cliff, I'm too elitist to consider not liking it.
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Stone Wera

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Re: What you DONT want in DF?
« Reply #124 on: February 21, 2011, 03:12:14 pm »

-snip-

Oh come on, now. I had little no no intent of lulling him into a false sense of security to feast on his delicious flesh while he slumbered. you know that's more than likely not true.
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Jake

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Re: What you DONT want in DF?
« Reply #125 on: February 21, 2011, 03:44:39 pm »

A design philosophy that says vanilla is only allowed to be as advanced as Europe in the middle ages, and not just where gunpowder is concerned. If the elves got some equivalent to The Canon Of Medicine that'd be awesome.
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I think Toady's confusing interface better simulates the experience of a bunch of disorganised drunken dwarves running a fort.

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Jingles

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Re: What you DONT want in DF?
« Reply #126 on: February 21, 2011, 04:14:02 pm »

I'd say I don't want this thread.  :P

Mostly because I'd like a lot of things others don't.  Ventilation, poo, magic (ventilated poo magic?).  I'd especially like to have the need for light in some way.  Mostly just so I can burn all that useless tallow, but it'd be nice.  If not for dwarfs for some reason (infrared vision etc.) then at least for humans or others who would not be so adapted.

What I don't want is the FPS lag.  And pointless frustrating micromanagement (which toady has been good at taking care of, so I'm not worried).  That's about it.

Jake

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Re: What you DONT want in DF?
« Reply #127 on: February 21, 2011, 04:49:35 pm »

Just as an aside, Ventilated Poo Magic sounds like a good name for a prog rock band.
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Never used Dwarf Therapist, mods or tilesets in all the years I've been playing.
I think Toady's confusing interface better simulates the experience of a bunch of disorganised drunken dwarves running a fort.

Black Powder Firearms - Superior firepower, realistic manufacturing and rocket launchers!

Waparius

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Re: What you DONT want in DF?
« Reply #128 on: February 21, 2011, 05:50:42 pm »

I'd like a lot of things others don't.  Ventilation, poo, magic (ventilated poo magic?).  I'd especially like to have the need for light in some way.  Mostly just so I can burn all that useless tallow, but it'd be nice.  If not for dwarfs for some reason (infrared vision etc.) then at least for humans or others who would not be so adapted.

Indeed. I want to be able to eventually have a multi-racial fortress with lighting, so I can construct a human ghetto on the surface.

Quote
What I don't want is the FPS lag.  And pointless frustrating micromanagement (which toady has been good at taking care of, so I'm not worried).  That's about it.

This.
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Vorthon

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Re: What you DONT want in DF?
« Reply #129 on: February 21, 2011, 06:29:54 pm »

2. Multiracial forts (might happen, but mjeh)

Why?

*Sigh*

I must repeat this question of mine.
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Max White

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Re: What you DONT want in DF?
« Reply #130 on: February 21, 2011, 06:59:23 pm »

You know what I realy don't want to change? The music. Or atleast the general theme of the music, if Toady wants to pull out a guitar and add a few more songs, I would love that! But I do not want any metal, or tecno, or any other large shift in paradine from the current music.

Assassinfox

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Re: What you DONT want in DF?
« Reply #131 on: February 21, 2011, 09:28:43 pm »

I don't want DF to become like some other games or settings out there where you HAVE to put up with elf bigotry.  :P

Interus

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Re: What you DONT want in DF?
« Reply #132 on: February 22, 2011, 02:12:57 am »

I'd say I don't want this thread.  :P

Mostly because I'd like a lot of things others don't.  Ventilation, poo, magic (ventilated poo magic?).  I'd especially like to have the need for light in some way.  Mostly just so I can burn all that useless tallow, but it'd be nice.  If not for dwarfs for some reason (infrared vision etc.) then at least for humans or others who would not be so adapted.

What I don't want is the FPS lag.  And pointless frustrating micromanagement (which toady has been good at taking care of, so I'm not worried).  That's about it.
As a more legitimate argument against airflow and ventilation(the vent zombie thing was mostly a joke reason, mostly) I don't think it could be put in in a way that's meaningful without being in the way.  There's all kinds of issues like:
Can more air get down a wider staircase.
how far from the air supply can a place be before there isn't enough air.
Do the caverns have a constant air supply?
If so, where does it come from.
If not, how do things live.
Do any underground crops produce oxygen?
If so, how fast?
If you encase an area above ground in wood, is it air-tight?  (probably, since it would be water tight)
What if you encase it in glass?
Is there a goblin ambush hiding in your vents?!

Also there's fps to think about, since such a system would be fairly complicated.  But in all honestly, I'm only very slightly against it.  Right now, I kinda like being able to build my forts without worrying about such things.

I want magic in the game personally, because I want artifacts to have magic properties, especially if they relate to the mood.  I'd like weapons made from possessions to be pure evil.

I don't know if I want waste or not.  Building a plumbing system seems like it would be difficult.  I'm picturing digging out a large tunnel system, laying pipes throughout the whole thing, and connecting the pipes to all the public toilet areas and an underground lake, because a bathroom for each dwarf would be too much work.  At least with pipes, there'd be no worry of accidentally flooding the fort when you pump water through the sewer system.
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Kogut

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Re: What you DONT want in DF?
« Reply #133 on: February 22, 2011, 03:16:16 am »

"I want magic in the game personally, because I want artifacts to have magic properties, especially if they relate to the mood.  I'd like weapons made from possessions to be pure evil."
Random magic from random resulting in random effects? Great! (Barrel may be horn of plenty - or may start glowing as sign of coming siege, artifact clay sword effective as this made from spoilermetal - or telling to dwarf making him mad, artifact spear turning part of killed into zombies etc)

But not: fireball, cost: 5  mana, create familiar 6 mana, force bolt 1 mana, magic missile 100 mana.
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: What you DONT want in DF?
« Reply #134 on: February 22, 2011, 12:15:21 pm »

As a more legitimate argument against airflow and ventilation(the vent zombie thing was mostly a joke reason, mostly) I don't think it could be put in in a way that's meaningful without being in the way.  There's all kinds of issues like:
Can more air get down a wider staircase.
how far from the air supply can a place be before there isn't enough air.
Do the caverns have a constant air supply?
If so, where does it come from.
If not, how do things live.
Do any underground crops produce oxygen?
If so, how fast?
If you encase an area above ground in wood, is it air-tight?  (probably, since it would be water tight)
What if you encase it in glass?
Is there a goblin ambush hiding in your vents?!

Also there's fps to think about, since such a system would be fairly complicated.  But in all honestly, I'm only very slightly against it.  Right now, I kinda like being able to build my forts without worrying about such things.

I want magic in the game personally, because I want artifacts to have magic properties, especially if they relate to the mood.  I'd like weapons made from possessions to be pure evil.

I don't know if I want waste or not.  Building a plumbing system seems like it would be difficult.  I'm picturing digging out a large tunnel system, laying pipes throughout the whole thing, and connecting the pipes to all the public toilet areas and an underground lake, because a bathroom for each dwarf would be too much work.  At least with pipes, there'd be no worry of accidentally flooding the fort when you pump water through the sewer system.

Actually, having plants that consume or produce oxygen in the deep caverns is one of the reasons I'd kind of like having an air quality system.  You could have dwarven farmers planting and nurturing oxygen-producing whatevers down in the deep caverns to filter out the magma gas and depleted air.  Having things like the decomposers that reduce sewage to usable compost require lots of oxygen means that your sewers would also need to have a serious amount of oxygen inflow, or you would have to spend time cultivating an awful lot of oxygen-producing plants near your sewers.

Mostly, I just like having interdependent systems that require tradeoffs, since I think that too many industries in this game are completely independent of one another, and as such, all choices are automatic.  Having players decide between the choice of making their sewers open-air (requiring possible exposure to vent zombies crawling through vents to the sewers, then up your latrines) or else spending much more time farming plants that do nothing but produce more oxygen, reducing your overall workforce is an interesting decision for players to make.

Basically, you have to choose between having a more complex military problem requiring highly trained mobile dwarven squads to fight the vent zombies crawling around your base, or you need to develop a more advanced farming system to allow you to perform all the different oxygen-production needs your dwarves will need to keep their sealed environment self-sustaining, hermetically sealed fortress running.

The same choice can go on for light, as well - burning lamps produce light but reduce oxygen and require fuel.  Glowing fungi can be grown for a longer-term solution that takes less oxygen, but require more farming (since you have to "grow" the light and the oxygen as well).

Then, you can make random magics be a part of this play as well, since maybe some of these solutions will cause different magic fields to attract different monsters or magic types, and relying on a more easy form of solving your problems introduces more magical monsters to fight you, while a safer method of handling your problems keeps the magical monsters away. 

It's a choice based upon what problems you want to have to solve as a player, not as a micromanagement problem making sure you have at least one ventilation tube for every 25 tiles in your fortress.
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Personally, I like [DF] because after climbing the damned learning cliff, I'm too elitist to consider not liking it.
"And no Frankenstein-esque body part stitching?"
"Not yet"

Improved Farming
Class Warfare
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