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[plisskin]

Ah, I knew this thread wasn't going anywhere good as soon as I saw a "please gripe about something" title.

I somehow sense an undercurrent of rejection of some of the things I have proposed specifically...

I hope you weren't referring to my post. I wasn't trying to insult your ideas, which I have read and thought were pretty cool. My worries stem from how much more technical and inaccessible the military system got between 40d and .38 and my hopes that other aspects of fortress-building wouldn't require as much fussing about. I used an example that sounds like it was aimed at you though.

Ironically enough I like the added customization to the military in spite of my complaints, but it fits the military. I wouldn't enjoy the same level of depth applied to every component, though, without the option to just let the game assign the shape of my sword hilts, for example, at random and not be forced to decide the exact pattern of gem decoration on a floodgate.

The option to do so would be cool, though.

[G-Flex]

I think your concerns are best viewed in terms of what Toady considers the role of the player. Basically, your role is to do things that would be considered "official" fortress decisions traced back to the fortress's management.

So, in those terms, think of it as if the fortress were a real-world organization. Maybe the guys in charge want to commission really particular statues and gem patterns and marble floors inlaid with blue sapphires and goat hooves, but aside from those particular things, there's autonomy.

In other words, there's no particularly compelling reason why you can't have what you're suggesting -- the ability to have some fairly complex control over the fortress without having to micromanage everything.

I think the current military system is just the game's first foray into that sort of complex player control, and as such is flawed in some ways. Hopefully, that will improve.

[plisskin]

I think your concerns are best viewed in terms of what Toady considers the role of the player. Basically, your role is to do things that would be considered "official" fortress decisions traced back to the fortress's management.

So, in those terms, think of it as if the fortress were a real-world organization. Maybe the guys in charge want to commission really particular statues and gem patterns and marble floors inlaid with blue sapphires and goat hooves, but aside from those particular things, there's autonomy.

In other words, there's no particularly compelling reason why you can't have what you're suggesting -- the ability to have some fairly complex control over the fortress without having to micromanage everything.

I think the current military system is just the game's first foray into that sort of complex player control, and as such is flawed in some ways. Hopefully, that will improve.

Yeah, good comparison. The player is less a god than an overseer. And I suppose as far as a system goes that allows you to set up complex patrol routes based on what month it is, it's not bad once you get past the imposing interface.

Kotaku may be right about this thread, it's as potentially flammable as an elf.

[Untelligent]

I don't want less control over what I'm allowed to do. I see absolutely no reason whatsoever to not be able to instantly make 120 of my dwarves masons. I also hope we can embark on foreign towns again someday.

[Cruxador]

I don't want things to be oversimplified.

I also don't want things to be hugely complicated unless I can "safely" ignore them.

[Kogan Loloklam]

I don't want any of you playing my game!

GET OFF MY DF!

[Jake]

I don't want anything Mr Welch Can No Longer Do In An RPG made possible in vanilla. Fortress or Adventure Mode.

[NW_Kohaku]

I don't want anything Mr Welch Can No Longer Do In An RPG made possible in vanilla. Fortress or Adventure Mode.

Not even diverting rivers into dungeons in order to bypass the dungeon, and then "pan for gold" on the other side?!  Not even with magma?! But that's so DWARFY!

[Jake]

Not even diverting rivers into dungeons in order to bypass the dungeon, and then "pan for gold" on the other side?!  Not even with magma?! But that's so DWARFY!

Maybe it's just me, and I suppose what one does in single player is one's own business, but I've always regarded that sort of thing as the DF equivalent of Zerg-rushing your opponent before he's even built a barracks; effective, but boringly easy and a bit like cheating.

[NW_Kohaku]

Hmmm.... looking it up...

"8. How to serve Dragons is not a cookbook."

No eating dragons?


EDIT:
"73. Not allowed to name my cudgel Ceremonial Whoopass Stick."

No naming of weapons cool things?


EDIT 2:
"101. I am not allowed to pave ANYTHING.
102. I am not authorized to start any civil engineering project on the taxpayer's dime."

No roads?


EDIT 3:
"190. Duel wielding small animals is strictly forbidden."
"345. I don't have weapon proficiency in elf, either."
"510. After a bloody battle, I will not celebrate by lying down and making carnage angels."
"519. Dual wielding party members is also frowned upon."
"542. No, I do not have time to carve that mountain in the shape of anything."
"625. I must remember before the next time I shave off the sleeping dwarf's beard and glue it to the sleeping elf, wars have been started that way."
"652. My fighter cannot take the flaw: Addiction- stabbing things."
"673. It's not necessary to install a portcullis in every single room of my castle."
"680. My axe doesn't go off accidentally when I'm cleaning it."
"696. Any plan involving strapping puppies to my armor is vetoed."
"777. Tai Kwan Doberman is not a real martial art."
"781. My tribe's trial by combat ritual is not best described as "Calvinball with axes""
"806. My character cannot have a noticeable impact, positive or negative, on a town's population."
"843. It doesn't matter how high his hit points or damage reduction are, we aren't sending the dwarf into battle via catapult."
"851. When plumbing the depths of depravity, I must remember to come up for air."
"854. We will not take the dead dryad with us to use as kindling."
"864. My doctor's bag will contain more than just a bonesaw and a bottle of whiskey."
"876. If I want to play a rampaging nordic warrior and get handed a treehugging elf hippie instead, I can't play her like a rampaging nordic warrior."
"886. Elves are not deciduous."
"964. Elves aren't marsupials."
"982. Trailblaze means find a path, not cut down every tree between here and there."
"999. I can't train squirrel mobs to abuse the grapple rules."
"1680. The point of the Improvised Weapon Skill is not to see how many different things I can kill people with."
"1730. No putting all my weapon points in the blowgun."
"1731. If I take the blowgun, I at least have to poison the darts."

Awwwwwwwwww

[Max White]

I know! So many things from that applie to DF...

[NW_Kohaku]

1055. I will also not simply refer to the elf druid as that dirty, dirty hippie.

Damnit, now I really want to play an RPG.

[Max White]

I only read up to 500 before I had to attend to some homework, but I realy should finish it some time. A freind of mine has conscripted me to play D&D for the first time in my life, and I'm looking forward to it.

He asked me what race/class I wanted, and not knowing any of the races or classes for sure, beyond steriotypes, my first instince was dwarf acrobat.

[Jake]

Something tells me my approach to playing DF is slightly unusual by the standards of this community...

[Africa]

Magic.