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[anon_outlaw]

i am going on what i have been told but apparently hitting hell results in a wave of death followed by demons spawning at the edges of hell and just waltzing over to the breach in search of 'fresh meat'. if you had a trap system to kill the 1st wave and a large and aggressive enough military there is no reason you couldn't give those demons a whooping bad enough you could build a fortress -as many players dream of doing- in the very depths of hell.

to finally beat the 'demon threat' is impossible though, they just keep coming and coming.

[Nekudotayim]

i am going on what i have been told but apparently hitting hell results in a wave of death followed by demons spawning at the edges of hell and just waltzing over to the breach in search of 'fresh meat'. if you had a trap system to kill the 1st wave and a large and aggressive enough military there is no reason you couldn't give those demons a whooping bad enough you could build a fortress -as many players dream of doing- in the very depths of hell.

to finally beat the 'demon threat' is impossible though, they just keep coming and coming.

You could block them off by building walls all around your embark site down there including a large area for tombstones for all the dead masons. Then build a channel, which floor is entiley covered with repeating upward spikes and a cat chained at the end.

[shlorf]

Make sure your spike traps are made with magma safe mechanisms. I've had traps getting dismantled by exploding demons made from flame. These demons are also rather deadly to soldiers as the flames from the explosions cannot be blocked.

[ral]

I'd probably try to kill off the first wave with cave-in traps.

[Urist Imiknorris]

There is only one true way to see if you're prepared - copy the save and try.

Also,

I'd probably try to kill off the first wave with cave-in traps.

[Girlinhat]

From what I understand, the forced of Hell don't follow the normal rules.  Normally, a creature is defined in a raw file, including their population.  This population can be 10,000 for near infinite, or it can be 2-3 in the case of cave dragons, but there's still a limit out there, and you can kill every single creature.

Demons, on the other hand, have no direct file, and are more like titans and forgotten beasts, in that they're mostly randomly generated, and have no population limit.  While there's a limit to how many will be on the map at one time, there's no limit to how many will come at you over time.  This can be good or bad, depending on your view.  On the one hand, there's always a foe for you to face, on the other hand, they fly and swim in magma and water, and will kill your FPS harder than all the cats in the world if allowed to gather.  Thus, either by violence or FPS, hell will destroy you.

The only way to combat hell, is to wall it off.  You can build walls at the edges of the map, but only underground.  On the surface it's only within 5 squares, but underground it's up to the edge.  However, on a 3x3 embark there should be 188 edge tiles.  Assuming hell to be 3-4 Z deep, counting the small hills, that's about 650+ tiles of wall that you need to build, plus small amounts of scaffolding to reach the above-ground-level walls, all while being assaulted by a constant stream of demons and the barrage of "Urist McMason cancels build: Interrupted by Demon".

[assimilateur]

Shit, here I was sure that titan and fb populations were strictly limited. I mean, you can even supposedly specify their number in the worldgen parameters.

[Darvi]

Afaik they are. I mean, why else would it matter if they could die in world gen or not?

Also, age of death and stuff.

[Lagslayer]

Steel warhammers might actually be slightly better than silver for the demons. If demons do not have any armor, then the slightly better critical wound rate of steel hammers is preferable to the slightly better armor penetration of silver. Really, any metal besides cotton candy makes good blunt weapons.

In the end, however, if they don't have armor, then axes would probably be the best.

[Girlinhat]

Shit, here I was sure that titan and fb populations were strictly limited. I mean, you can even supposedly specify their number in the worldgen parameters.

They are limited, but their body composition is random, similar to how demon type is random.

[assimilateur]

critical wound rate (...) armor penetration of silver

DF seriously has such gamey mechanics as those? If that's true I'm gonna be disappointed.

They are limited, but their body composition is random, similar to how demon type is random.

OK.

[Girlinhat]

As has been quoted before, "Combat mechanics has a lot of power under the hood" but unfortunately, little of it is used at current.  A silver mace will do damage against plate armor, by bashing through it like striking a wooden spoon on the bottom on a pot.  It reverberates through it and damages underneath, without doing a great deal of damage to the armor itself.  That's how you get broken bones and solid armor.  Cushions like layers of chain mail and leather vests should protect more against hammers, but their effectiveness is debatable.

Really, in general, it's much easier to think about DF combat in terms of real life combat, mostly.  Unlike an RPG where a solid plate of steel with protect you from anything (or a leather thong, if it's one of THOSE games) DF has the capacity to really change how combat interacts by using layers.  Skin and muscle is flexible, so hammers just cause bruising, but their elasticity also allows the hammer blow to strike through to the bone without a great deal of muscle damage.  Armor, essentially, adds more layers to the creature's tissue collection, in practical terms.  It's just very simplified in vanilla, because all metals save adamantine have roughly the same stats, with the only difference being density.

[assimilateur]

I thought that in real life, only soft armor or only hard armor did very little against blunt weapons, and you had to layer them. I'm wondering how that is modeled in the game, since according to the wiki plate/hard armor is supposed to be a requirement if you want to have any protection against blunt weapons and I have yet to see conclusive evidence that layering does anything.

[Proberoo]

I thought I was prepared when I breached... and I think I was, but the fact that my FPS went down to 0 from all the demons meant I never got to find out. 

[Girlinhat]

That's why many players don't breach.  It's not the challenge, it's the inability to play!  Apparently though, when the first wave is destroyed, then they come one at a time, and that's easier on the FPS than a swarm of 50 flying omni-pathing warlords.