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[superradish]

Oh great toady, thou who hast destroyed days and weeks of my life with this entertaining bounty... hear my plea and behold the prototype for how it should be: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mm-dPes5NgE

In all seriousness, this would boost the playability of DF by a large amount and it's fairly simple. The menu hotkeys should stay put, of course.. but this is an excellent, crisp, and effective UI. Please give it a large amount of consideration. Thanks!

[Capntastic]

When the presentation arc comes around, this'll mos' 'def be something I campaign for.

[ZioAnthros]

ANY consistent gui would be greatly appreciated.

[Durin Stronginthearm]

It's pointless to update the interface when major features are still being added, as most likely it would require several overhauls. I'd rather Toady continue developing the gameplay for now. Refining the interface is for later.

[Capntastic]

This is more of a "When you do," than a "Do this now".   At least, I choose to interpret it that way.

[G-Flex]

That GUI working in a tech demo (like that video) does not imply that it would actually be a good idea to implement in DF. Mouse-based context menus like that have a lot of issues when you have tons of menus/commands to choose from, lots of stuff would have to be controlled by the keyboard (or other GUI elements) anyway, and there are so many things you can do on a single tile, especially when multiple things are present on it. The fact of the matter is that this video looks neat, but mostly just looks that way and doesn't hold up to very rigorous analysis or criticism. There is simply no way to have a consistent user interface for something like DF without either onscreen menus present (aside from just context menus) or plenty of keyboard control.

[Capntastic]

Goblin Camp is actually a bit further along than 'tech demo'.   It's fairly playable, and the GUI is definitely its strongest point.

[G-Flex]

Whether that's true or not, I fail to believe that it has both the complexity/features of DF and a simple-yet-scalable context-menu-based interface. Hell, that doesn't even seem like a good idea. When I get a chance, I'll check it out, though.

[Capntastic]

Who said it was as complex as DF?   I was merely arguing against your assertion that it's a 'tech demo'.

[Dutchling]

I played goblin camp for about 10 minutes but I just couldn't do it becasue of the UI
I had no idea what to do and what to click while in DF everything you could click/do is on 1 screen.

[G-Flex]

Who said it was as complex as DF?   I was merely arguing against your assertion that it's a 'tech demo'.

Oh, by "tech demo" I meant with regards to being an interface for DF, not in its sense as its own game. I guess I didn't explain myself well.

My point is that if it's not as complex as DF, you cannot assume the same interface would work, for the reasons I previously stated.

[NW_Kohaku]

... I have to say, I'm not particularly fond of Goblin Camp's UI. 

I mean, DF has some serious work to do improving its UI, but not using the mouse is something I consider a bit of a plus in DF's favor.  If the controls were a bit more streamlined, and if cursor memory was implemented, I wouldn't see any reason why people would want a mouse.

[G-Flex]

Because it (arguably) works for a game superficially similar to DF, therefore it must work for DF.

[Footkerchief]

When the presentation arc comes around, this'll mos' 'def be something I campaign for.

It might be best to retire the term "Presentation Arc," since Toady apparently hasn't used it since 2008 (and the Arc system is obselete anyway).  "The stocks screen and likely the unit list" are scheduled to get reworked soon, but I doubt a comprehensive interface overhaul will ever happen.  It's just too entrenched at this point.

[NW_Kohaku]

I doubt a comprehensive interface overhaul will ever happen.  It's just too entrenched at this point.

This right here, though.  This is why we should invalidate all arguments like this one:

It's pointless to update the interface when major features are still being added, as most likely it would require several overhauls. I'd rather Toady continue developing the gameplay for now. Refining the interface is for later.

I'm opposed to a mouse-based interface, at least unless the entire interface is utterly scrapped the way that Jiri Petru wanted it to be.

That said, yes you can improve the interface in other ways.

The units screen, for one, could use

• Cursor memory so I don't have to scroll through thousands of units to find one specific cow every time.
• Catagorization so that all dwarves, goblins, cows, and other things are in an expandable folder, with a "collapse folder" button so that I can switch between looking for a particular elf and a particular dwarf fairly easily.
• The dead sorted into their own page, with a button that toggles between looking through living and dead units.
• Some sort of memory of a particular unit I was looking at.  Maybe a button that remembers the dwarf I am looking at in the units screen, and then when I go to some other portion of the interface that asks for a specific unit, I can hit the "memory" button, and that unit will be selected or zoomed to on the list for you.  That way, I can look for what cow I want butchered on the units menu, and then on the screen where I can actually butcher the cow, I can zoom immediately to that cow I selected.
• For that matter, interface to interface shortcuts.  I should be able to switch between the four kinds of "look" without canceling out of a menu, then entering into another menu.  Just give a key that swaps from "k" look to "t" look instantly.  The same can be said for most other screens, like switching from the screen where I butcher animals to the units screen where I can actually see some data on the animal I am going to butcher so that I can actually make an informed decision.
• Just to expand on that last one, "v" look should have a shortcut to that unit's place in the unit screen.  The "z" going into the unit's detailed view was a good step in this direction (and proof that it's not impossible to add some interface changes that help the player.  Just make it go into the unit list, or have an option from the detailed view to back out into the unit list.

 

Flipping from window to window to access amounts of data not presentable to the player in one window is necessary, but at least it can be done as easily and directly as possible with shortcuts, expanding/collapsing folders, and cursor memory.