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[NW_Kohaku]

... I need to stop paying attention to this thread, or I'm going to start writing out a new interface proposal for the whole game...

[ZioAnthros]

I think some kind of clearly labelled tab system would be ideal, (for a mouse) while still keeping the hot keys (a necessity for pros).
I think a UI overhaul would significantly increase the game's demographic.
Right now, despite my passionate ravings of the game, and to folks who respect my taste considerably, still take one look at the game and give up within half an hour saying, "I just can't...".

Now i have no one to share my delightful DF misadventures with.
Well, at least not among the folks i spend alot of tie around anyway.

[anon_outlaw]

yeah, i would really like to see the menus sorted a bit better. the hotkeys work well enough considering they are trying to make sense of what is effectively wonka's chocolate factory. as for the graphical interface? i would love to see it put it! there is no reason it would get rid of the hotkey system and it would make it easier for new players to learn the game.

i play RTS games a bit, one thing most have in common is that they have hotkeys of their own that most people don't know exist till they are much better at the game. while we all play DF2 lots and learn our stuff... for someone to pick it up and get going? nearly impossible. i played C&C: Generals for hours before i finally got good enough that a point and click interface was holding me back.

another thing would be the obvious click and point introduced to the designations menu. it makes the whole process so much simpler. a joint mouse and keyboard interface is inevitable if you ask me and will add much to the game in terms of content and new players.

[G-Flex]

I think some kind of clearly labelled tab system would be ideal, (for a mouse) while still keeping the hot keys (a necessity for pros).
I think a UI overhaul would significantly increase the game's demographic.
Right now, despite my passionate ravings of the game, and to folks who respect my taste considerably, still take one look at the game and give up within half an hour saying, "I just can't...".

Now i have no one to share my delightful DF misadventures with.
Well, at least not among the folks i spend alot of tie around anyway.

I know this is off-topic, but why do you feel the need to intentionally render your posts in a different font, especially one so much less readable? It's generally considered a bit rude to apply post-wide formatting like that, but... Comic Sans? Really?



At any rate, what DF lacks and needs the most is consistency. As it is, everything is sort of all over the place, screens that should act similarly to each other don't, and there's not enough structure when it comes to how to go about tasks.

[Vorthon]

Am I the only one here who actually likes the current interface the way it is for the most part?

[NW_Kohaku]

At any rate, what DF lacks and needs the most is consistency. As it is, everything is sort of all over the place, screens that should act similarly to each other don't, and there's not enough structure when it comes to how to go about tasks.

... Seriously, you're going to make me generate a new interface topic...

Am I the only one here who actually likes the current interface the way it is for the most part?

Well, let me ask you some basic questions, then:  What sort of forts do you play?  Do you play generally "small" forts with 20 or less dwarves in it, or do you play larger forts with over 120 dwarves in it?  Do you use Dwarf Therapist or other major tools for helping control your dwarves and formatting information in a different way than the game already provides it?  Do you focus more upon military, domestic affairs, or megaprojects?  Do you use ascii or graphical tilesets?  What sorts of mods do you use? 

One of the things I've been talking about recently is how the game's design seems to echo Toady's generally only ever playing short-lived forts anymore, with high fortress entropy (ghosts and dead on the units lists that just flood your units screen eventually and the gradual wear upon FPS).  If you play smaller, short-lived forts, with no care for long-term sustainability or consequence, the game's interface is better suited to your playstyle, since that's basically what Toady's mindset seems to have been when he built it.  It's more focused upon tracking down that small number of items and micromanagement that you have to do when you only have 7 dwarves and very few resources than it is for controlling large volumes of dwarves and resources in a constant flow.

[Vorthon]

At any rate, what DF lacks and needs the most is consistency. As it is, everything is sort of all over the place, screens that should act similarly to each other don't, and there's not enough structure when it comes to how to go about tasks.

... Seriously, you're going to make me generate a new interface topic...

Am I the only one here who actually likes the current interface the way it is for the most part?

Well, let me ask you some basic questions, then:  What sort of forts do you play?  Do you play generally "small" forts with 20 or less dwarves in it, or do you play larger forts with over 120 dwarves in it?  Do you use Dwarf Therapist or other major tools for helping control your dwarves and formatting information in a different way than the game already provides it?  Do you focus more upon military, domestic affairs, or megaprojects?  Do you use ascii or graphical tilesets?  What sorts of mods do you use? 

One of the things I've been talking about recently is how the game's design seems to echo Toady's generally only ever playing short-lived forts anymore, with high fortress entropy (ghosts and dead on the units lists that just flood your units screen eventually and the gradual wear upon FPS).  If you play smaller, short-lived forts, with no care for long-term sustainability or consequence, the game's interface is better suited to your playstyle, since that's basically what Toady's mindset seems to have been when he built it.  It's more focused upon tracking down that small number of items and micromanagement that you have to do when you only have 7 dwarves and very few resources than it is for controlling large volumes of dwarves and resources in a constant flow.

I said for the most part. There a few areas where it could be improved, but I think it's good enough in a number of areas.

I tend to vary my play style. I'm actually going to see how long I can make a fort last soon.

[NW_Kohaku]

I said for the most part. There a few areas where it could be improved, but I think it's good enough in a number of areas.

I tend to vary my play style. I'm actually going to see how long I can make a fort last soon.

Well then, what part's didn't you like?  What parts did you find most suited to one play style, but not another?  When you tried a different approach before, did you ever notice that sometimes the interface was more troublesome trying one approach to the game compared to another?

EDIT: Grammar typo

[Vorthon]

I said for the most part. There a few areas where it could be improved, but I think it's good enough in a number of areas.

I tend to vary my play style. I'm actually going to see how long I can make a fort last soon.

Well then, what part's didn't you like?  What parts did you find most suited to one play style, but not another?  When you tried a different approach before, did you ever noticed that sometimes the interface was more troublesome trying one approach to the game compared to another?

My main problem is the merchant request bit. All the other multi-column menus allow to select the active column with the left and right (and 4 and 6 on the Numpad) keys, but the interface when for when your making requests for what you want the next caravan to bring, the left column is tied to - and +, while the right on is tied to up and down. It gets me every time. That really the only problem I have.

[NW_Kohaku]

My main problem is the merchant request bit. All the other multi-column menus allow to select the active column with the left and right (and 4 and 6 on the Numpad) keys, but the interface when for when your making requests for what you want the next caravan to bring, the left column is tied to - and +, while the right on is tied to up and down. It gets me every time. That really the only problem I have.

Ahhh, yeah.  What's really sad is there are actually four different directionality keysets. 

Most of the time, the numpad takes front seat, but often, the menu needs a "+-*/" secondary directional movement set, so that you can scroll menus and scroll the map at the same time - but then consider how you build a drawbridge - you use the numpad to move the base of the bridge, "uhkm" to select bridge size, and "wasdx" to decide lifting directionality. 

Frankly, I am absolutely no fan of "uhkm", even if I'm used to it by now.

[NW_Kohaku]

i play RTS games a bit, one thing most have in common is that they have hotkeys of their own that most people don't know exist till they are much better at the game. while we all play DF2 lots and learn our stuff... for someone to pick it up and get going? nearly impossible. i played C&C: Generals for hours before i finally got good enough that a point and click interface was holding me back.

Let me get back to this one for a bit...

I'm not much of an RTS fan.  The last Blizzard RTS I played was the original Starcraft, and I've only ever played the first Command & Conquer when I got it cheap many years after it was replaced by newer versions that I never played.

Still, I want to point out something on that command console that you had in Starcraft - you had all your icons on your little command HUD in a 4x3 grid.  No matter what functions you were talking about, or what units you were using, they all fit their commands on a 4x3 grid.  Most of the commands even were in the same places, like move or stop. 

Then, the hotkeys, which you absolutely HAD to learn in order to play well, were randomly scattered about the keyboard, and required individual memorization... but there they were, all neatly ordered in a row on the HUD for clicking...

Why not just map those on-screen buttons to your keyboard in that specific order?  Top left button is "q" on the keyboard, top mid-left is "w", then top mid-right is "e".  Screw what the name of the function was, I don't need to know that the gun on a battleship is called a "Y"amato Cannon, I just need to fire it as fast as I can while mashing through my list of available battleships before I get out-moused by my enemy.  The closer together the main functions are in terms of hotkeys, the better it is for control and ease of memory.  There's only at most 12 buttons, and they are already ordered in a way that makes binding them to "qwer asdf zxcv" extremely easy to remember.

[scout890]

Actually a while back I noticed I could mark designations with the mouse althought I found it a bit annoying and odd

[Vorthon]

Actually a while back I noticed I could mark designations with the mouse althought I found it a bit annoying and odd

I have that problem too. Sometimes when I'm designating tiles to be dug out, I accidentally click and end up with a isolated dig designation in the middle of nowhere.

[Xgamer4]

Am I the only one here who actually likes the current interface the way it is for the most part?

...I don't mind it, because I generally only play shorter, small forts, but the interface really does leave a lot to be desired. I'm with G-Flex for the reason. It's just not consistent, fluid, or easily-understandable. Three keys to look (k,v,t)? Really? Two entirely separate ways to scroll (the numpad way that I have rebound due to laptop, and arrow keys)? It's just overwhelming.

I'm personally for more mouse control and a dual mouse/keyboard UI, but I'd be perfectly content with a more streamlined set of hotkeys.

[runiq]

Ahhh, yeah.  What's really sad is there are actually four different directionality keysets. 

Most of the time, the numpad takes front seat, but often, the menu needs a "+-*/" secondary directional movement set, so that you can scroll menus and scroll the map at the same time - but then consider how you build a drawbridge - you use the numpad to move the base of the bridge, "uhkm" to select bridge size, and "wasdx" to decide lifting directionality. 

Frankly, I am absolutely no fan of "uhkm", even if I'm used to it by now.

I just used the arrow keys for uhkm, and the numpad for navigation. I'm still in the middle of changing my keybindings to my liking (got back into fortress mode just recently), but this served me well.