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Author Topic: Paranormal Mafia Round 18 - Game Over  (Read 126150 times)

Book

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Re: Paranormal Mafia Round 18
« Reply #165 on: February 15, 2011, 08:01:31 am »

And now, a Public Service Announcement:
LurkerTracker®
Life is such that we all have been stoned,
Tried our best, our scumhunting was pwnd.
         but the worst can be worsen,
         when compared with Person.
His prose can't be parsed by the zoned.

Argembarger has 5 posts; the last 10 hours ago. Red text: Ottofar: Posts: [1][2][3][4][5]
Book has 19 posts; the last 2 hours ago. Red text: Unvote Toaster, vote Webadict Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17][18][19]
Dariush has 5 posts; the last 18 hours ago. Red text: webadict Posts: [1][2][3][4][5]
JanusTwoface has 12 posts; the last 7 hours ago. Red text: Org Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12]
Jim Groovester has 23 posts; the last 4 hours ago. Red text: Mr.Person Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17][18][19][20][21][22][23]
Jokerman-EXE has 5 posts; the last 28 hours ago. Red text: unvote Posts: [1][2][3][4][5]
Leafsnail has 7 posts; the last 10 hours ago. Red text: NativeForeigner Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7]
Mr.Person has 4 posts; the last 0 hours ago. Red text: unvote) Jim Groovester and vote JanusTwoface Posts: [1][2][3][4]
Mysteriousbluepuppet has 7 posts; the last 43 hours ago. Red text: Webadict Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7]
NativeForeigner has 13 posts; the last 5 hours ago. Red text: Leafsnail Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13]
Org has 9 posts; the last 10 hours ago. Red text: Janus. Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9]
Ottofar has 10 posts; the last 17 hours ago. Red text: Unvote MBPVote Toaster Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10]
Pandarsenic has 12 posts; the last 6 hours ago. Red text: unvote NF because Ottofar Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12]
Toaster has 10 posts; the last 16 hours ago. Red text: MBP Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10]
webadict has 13 posts; the last 7 hours ago. Red text: JanusTwoface Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13]

Moderator has 9 posts; the last 7 hours ago. Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9]


Moderator: please prod Mysteriousbluepuppet. They haven't posted in over 36 hours.

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Mysteriousbluepuppet

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Re: Paranormal Mafia Round 18
« Reply #166 on: February 15, 2011, 08:09:28 am »

Alive, i'll make my way in the thread and post toughts in a few. Sorry for that,
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Mysteriousbluepuppet

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Re: Paranormal Mafia Round 18
« Reply #167 on: February 15, 2011, 09:51:06 am »

Wow, so much vitriol. Small commentary on Wall of texts

First off, unvote Webadict, that came from way back.

Between Book and Webadict, there alot going on. First off, disambiguation about the numbers.

I can see how Web would assume that there is always a town kook in Paranormals. There as been for alot of time, and i personnally believe one of them 2 is probably town. To add to that, 2 scums both deciding to try fakeclaiming is a litterally Incredibly Ballsy Move. 1 real kook and you just suicided 1-2 guys. Frankly, unless you want to argue that the WIFOM received from lynching one of the kooks would absolve the other absolutely, i have no idea why would scum cripple themselves so, i will assume now that 1 of the kook is town.

Both are vaguely suspicious, toaster for his rushed claim, Ottofar for fear of hardheaded idiots (yes, i know i used the same reason back then, thank you) Again, since it is less likely that scum would claim after town, so slight bia on Toaster scumtude. Aint nothing much tho. I intend to concentrate more on the wall of text later on, for now i got lab, back tonight, hopefully before the lynch.

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Ottofar

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Re: Paranormal Mafia Round 18
« Reply #168 on: February 15, 2011, 10:18:38 am »

Okay. Unvote Toaster.

MBP. Flimsy reasoning, taken the game's been going on this long. Seriously. The kook claim was a bad reason in RVS already, and now it is even worse.

Also, which both are vaguely suspicious, Toaster and me or Web and Book?

Org

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Re: Paranormal Mafia Round 18
« Reply #169 on: February 15, 2011, 10:32:28 am »

If Janus doesn't have to do anything but just go okay I want to policy lynch lol okay.
Then I want to.

Also Janus is just an enormous asshole.
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webadict

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Re: Paranormal Mafia Round 18
« Reply #170 on: February 15, 2011, 10:42:39 am »

Yo, Meph.

Some of us need more than 24 hours for an Extension.

How about 48 next time? Otherwise, there will be an influx of requests, and denying us extensions is pretty anti-game.

Just a heads up.
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Toaster

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Re: Paranormal Mafia Round 18
« Reply #171 on: February 15, 2011, 11:15:34 am »

Native:
Leafsnail: Is there a particular reason you voted me, questioned me, and then failed to follow up in any way whatsoever? That effectively accomplishes nothing.

Toaster, who are you most suspicious of as of right now?

I don't understand your case on Leafsnail.  You voted him for being content with your responses?  What?

As for the question, let me address everything else first, and the list will be last.


Org:
Aww man Webadict is getting lynched gotta help my scumbuddy.
Janus.

Are you shitting me?  You're moving into overt anti-town.

PPE:  You get a little credit back for finally putting in a decent reason.

Besides Janus, who do you suspect?  Do you think Janus is truly scum or are you voting him out of spite?

Argembarger:
I want Janus lynched.

But why?

Same reason Web wants Janus lynched?

You led him into the easy answer.  Why?  If you were baiting a trap, he clearly took it- why didn't you act on it?


Book:
Book:  How is claiming kook in my first post scummy?  What would be the non-scummy way to do it?
As I said, it's not just your claiming kook, but your amazing speed at doing so that strikes me as scummy. If you had done it an hour or two later it would have seemed less scummy. It just reeks to me as a preemptive fakeclaim. In isolation it's not much, but the rest of your posts also strike me as scummy, how you've managed to attack without engaging is compatible with what I know of your scum game, as is your silence over web's relentless defence of your towniehood (a townie would at least have said "hey, don't defend/buddy me"). Still, it's not enough for me to be certain you are scum, but it is enough for me to distrust your claim, leaving the fakeclaim a distinct possibility.


This reason is horseshit.  So you're saying if I had looked at my role PM, saw Kook, sat around for an hour or two without participating, and THEN started in with a RV and a Kook claim, it'd be fine?

Do you honestly believe that?


Jim:
Jim:
I didn't coerce Ottofar into anything. How Ottofar responded was up to Ottofar. He responded poorly, just like Ottofar. Do you see me calling him scum for it? No.

Did you expect him to vote me in response?

That's not something I thought about when I asked the question.

If that was on my mind when I did ask the question, I would have answered yes, I did expect it, but only because Ottofar is Ottofar.

Do you find it suspicious that he voted in reaction to your question?  I'm guessing no, since he's not on your scum list.  What was on your mind when you asked the question?

The speed of Toaster's claim is certainly interesting, and if I wanted to be paranoid, suspicious, but it's not an exceptionally terrific reason to use for a vote. I'll grant you Toaster is exceptionally wily, but even if you're playing with Wile E. Coyote, you still need a concrete reason.
This bit is... odd.  I really can't see why a quick claim is anything other than null.  Can you explain why this is a "not exceptionally terrific reason" rather than "not a reason at all"?

The paranoid in me suspects Toaster for his kook claim, but I've got nothing concrete to go off of. So I understand why Book suspects Toaster, but I do not think that reason alone was sufficient justification for the vote.

So, I guess that's what I mean when I say 'not an exceptionally terrific reason.' There's a basis, but it's incredibly flimsy.

I could have just as easily said 'not a reason at all.' Seems like we're splitting hairs here and talking about the same thing.

What about the claim do you suspect?


Person:  (asked for clarification of this quote:)
What if everyone takes the "wait and see" approach?  If no one jumps out and takes the initiative, how will you find scum?

It annoys me when people outright state that they're going to sit there and be passive.  It's almost like they think that stating it absolves them of responsibility to take an active role and find scum themselves.  If everyone did that, the scum would lurk their way to an easy win.  See BYO Winter Holiday- Joker and I sat around for an easy win because town did nothing to find us.  If you claim you're waiting around in a game I'm in, expect me to give you shit for it.


MBP
Both are vaguely suspicious, toaster for his rushed claim, Ottofar for fear of hardheaded idiots (yes, i know i used the same reason back then, thank you) Again, since it is less likely that scum would claim after town, so slight bia on Toaster scumtude. Aint nothing much tho. I intend to concentrate more on the wall of text later on, for now i got lab, back tonight, hopefully before the lynch.

You get the same question as Book- what would have been the non-scummy way to claim Kook?

Also, your last sentence is bullshit.  You're willing to see me lynched over WIFOM and "nothing much?"  If you want more time to read walls of text instead of just ignoring them, why not ask for an extension?  Right now you're saying that you don't care about them- why would you care about them later if you don't now?


Okay. Unvote Toaster.

MBP. Flimsy reasoning, taken the game's been going on this long. Seriously. The kook claim was a bad reason in RVS already, and now it is even worse.

Also, which both are vaguely suspicious, Toaster and me or Web and Book?

...says the person who just now unvoted me for said "bad reason."  You were asked for your case on everyone else you said suspicious, as well; where's that info?


Janus:  Do you think a kook claim is inherently scummy?

You say that you're not sure about Web, but then:

blah blah blah some more
Doesn't seem to be much point in responding to you any more, you're just ignoring me anyway.

You end your discussion with him.  What was your final decision on Web?



Final summary and picks:

MBP is the top- hence my vote on him stays.  Org and Book are scummy for reasons stated.  Janus is on the list, but (like the others) I want answers out of him.
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Mephansteras

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Re: Paranormal Mafia Round 18
« Reply #172 on: February 15, 2011, 11:25:34 am »

The Whiteboard
JanusTwoFace: Mr.Person, Org, webadict
Leafsnail: NativeForeigner
Mr.Person: Jim Groovester
Mysteriousbluepuppet: Ottofar, Toaster
NativeForeigner: Leafsnail
Org: JanusTwoFace
Ottofar: Argembarger, Pandarsenic
Toaster: Mysteriousbluepuppet
webadict: Book, Dariush



Day ends ~5pm Pacific Today. There is 1 vote for an extension. 4 total votes will extend the day to ~5pm Pacific Wednesday.


@Everyone: Webadict also put in a vote to have extensions be 48 hours instead of 24. I'm fine either way, so if a lot of people want that I'll change how it works for future extensions.
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Toaster

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Re: Paranormal Mafia Round 18
« Reply #173 on: February 15, 2011, 11:31:55 am »

Perhaps allow requests for double extensions?
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HMR stands for Hazardous Materials Requisition, not Horrible Massive Ruination, though I can understand how one could get confused.
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Mephansteras

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Re: Paranormal Mafia Round 18
« Reply #174 on: February 15, 2011, 11:40:41 am »

That could work.
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Argembarger

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Re: Paranormal Mafia Round 18
« Reply #175 on: February 15, 2011, 11:52:12 am »

Argembarger:
I want Janus lynched.

But why?

Same reason Web wants Janus lynched?

You led him into the easy answer.  Why?  If you were baiting a trap, he clearly took it- why didn't you act on it?

It shows that Org is being demonstrably lazy in this game. I figured I'd be explicit as possible in my wording to see if Org had any reason to vote Janus besides an OMGUS for Janus' anti-Org policy, or lazily latching on to Web's work.

That said, what do you mean by acting upon it? If you mean further probing Org for his Janus vote, it seemed unnecessary to me. If you mean voting Org over it, well, lazy Ottofar is scummier than lazy Org in my opinion, so my vote stays there for now.

Now, I DID ask him for other scumpicks, and if he continues to ignore that question, he will be both lazy AND unhelpful, and therefore certainly scummy.

Pandarsenic, I checked back on your posts and you reek of active lurking. I would like your top 3 scumpicks.

PPE: A double-extension has my support. If necessary, this vote should be counted for a single-extension as well.
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Toaster

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Re: Paranormal Mafia Round 18
« Reply #176 on: February 15, 2011, 12:10:38 pm »

Argem:  I meant either a vote or further probing.  Fair enough re your question to him: I just didn't feel like you really pressed that attack.
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Argembarger

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Re: Paranormal Mafia Round 18
« Reply #177 on: February 15, 2011, 12:12:59 pm »

Nah, I'm not done with Org just yet.
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Jokerman-EXE

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Re: Paranormal Mafia Round 18
« Reply #178 on: February 15, 2011, 12:34:54 pm »

Jokerman-EXE wakes up, takes a shower, and pours himself a cup of coffee. Upon sitting down at his computer to check over the B12 forums, he promptly suffers a heart attack and dies.

Nah, I kid. It's good to see some fatty posts when I wake up. Gives me something to think about on the way to class.

Jokerman-EXE: Who else do you feel is scummy, besides Ottofar? You've said a lot about who you think is NOT scummy, so I'm interested in who you think is and why.

For one thing, Ottofar has more than enough in terms of my suspicions to warrant a vote now. I may not be posting much, but at least I'm saying things that can be dissected and discussed; I'm still waiting for a really useful post from Ottofar, and now it just feels like lurking scum. I know he posts from a phone, but it's not impossible to get a few minutes to sit at the computer and post something with content. I would know. Plus:

Okay. Unvote Toaster.

MBP. Flimsy reasoning, taken the game's been going on this long. Seriously. The kook claim was a bad reason in RVS already, and now it is even worse.

Also, which both are vaguely suspicious, Toaster and me or Web and Book?

...what. He votes the person you're voting, and then...you unvote that person to vote him? What is that I don't even

Yes, MBP could have said more useful things given the stretch of time it took him to say anything at all. Still, this reasoning of yours is also bullshit.

And here's one of the reasons I think you're scum: lack of strong opinion on apparent suspicions, which is completely and totally unlike you.

As much as I hate piggybacking on other peoples' arguments, this is exactly what I was thinking as I read through the thread. Typical JTF behavior in past games has been to found a suspicion and then pursue it until either they die, or he does. It doesn't sit well with me that he's not doing that, and has instead been dragged into this monstrous argument.

On that point, I want to point out that it's possible that Mr.Person, Webadict, Jim, Janus, Org, and Book are all Town (not saying they are, simply that it's possible). If this is the case, then it would be an absolutely amazing waste of a game for you to all sit there with your heads in each others' asses, arguing about stupid shit that goes beyond the game and into a childish insult-fest while the Dopplegangers sit there and twiddle their thumbs in glee as you destroy all of our chances at winning.

You're all making decent points, and as I read I can actually see myself being swayed back and forth by your arguments. But that's not enough; if you've wasted all of D1 pounding each other, and then one is lynched and flips town, while another is NK'ed and flips town, then I'm going to go out on a limb and say that your humbled self will be completely goddam useless for the better part of D2.

In that spirit, I'm thinking that it's time for everyone to either join in on this crap, or for you all to get out of it. And since you guys are "the best" and wouldn't listen to us, I'll be the first to try and join.

Mr.Person:
There is a bit of a difference, actually. Refusing to answer means Book look at the question, decided answering was bad for the town, and then refused. You looked at the question, which you've freeely admitted was frivilous and useless, and decided it was important enough to pressure Book into answering. Book's was more of a passive thing while yours takes both an active effort for no gain. This means you either decided to force the issue into relevance to attack Book or you value your time so lowly you're willing to waste it AND you don't know how to scumhunt properly via asking questions.

You've literally just said my case. Book thinks talking about Extie choices IS dangerous to talk about. That you think Book is incorrect is irrelevant. So Book did in fact have a reason to not answer that was to him a good one. You argued with Book that it wasn't dangerous, Book disagreed. If you had asked Book other questions or questions about Book's refusal to answer, you would of gotten responses from Book.

Why does it feel like you're defending Book here? For one thing, you're listing off his reasons, which should be impossible, given that you're not Book. Beyond that, it appears that your main argument is that Book's refusal to answer a "frivolous" question is ultimately unimportant. If that's your claim, then I would ask you what the point of the RVS is. Here I was thinking it was to ask frivolous questions until you start to suspect something. That's what happened here - Book's refusal to answer was enough to get someone's attention. What's wrong with pursuing after that?

I might have missed it if there were questions directed at me (I did a basic reread, but I'm exhausted so forgive me if I did).

Webadict is being suspiciously loud this game. I mean, he's always loud and, well, WUBA, but this game it feels as though he's trying too hard to defend himself before evolving into an attack on Jim. I expected the attack sooner, to be honest, and it felt as though he wasn't playing as he usually does as Town, though that's been abated a bit.

JTF...it's never easy for me to read JTF, but I feel like he's giving off a more Town vibe. His posts have been constructive and he's been voicing suspicions and pursuing scum. All in all, Town read.

Ottofar is being Ottofar, as Pandarsenic said. Out of all three, I'd have to say he's the most scummy to me: his claim was interesting, to say the least. However, from there, he's been more and more scattered, and not making all that much sense. He's also not pursuing scum at all; only answering questions and leaving it at that.

Your position on Web is really stupid since it seems to be "talking a lot = scum" which is laughably false. You're gonna have to prove he's scum via the things he says and not make blanket statements about how much he's saying.

What suspicions? What scum? I see none of those things when I look at JTF's posts. I see empty statements of character that can be read either way. I see no real pressure applied to anyone. I see no real vote or anything at all that makes me think JTF is town. I just see crappy questions that mean nothing.

In what way is Ottofar's claim suspicious? Don't even think of saying "kook=fakeclaim" since that's not allowed. At least come up with a real reason, even if it's Book's crappy reasoning.

I wasn't saying that talking a lot=scum, but thanks for trying to put a meaning in there. Interesting, too, considering that you're the one with the largest posts; trying to make us believe that talking a lot could never be scummy? But no, my opinion on Webadict has changed now. From what I've read, he's coming across as legitimately pissed off town, and not overly-chatty scum. Gut feeling, though.

As for JTF, while a lot of his posts may be passive - indeed, I'm more used to him being a hardliner - there have been points where I've read what he's saying and agreed, which would mean...what? That I'm subconsciously passive? No, it means that he has made a few points and ignoring them wholesale to agree with WUBA (even using WUBA's reasoning) is stupid. That said, I don't feel like Janus is Town anymore. I don't necessarily feel like he's scum, either, but I hesitate to say that I don't suspect him anymore. In fact, I do.

Where did I say his claim was suspicious? That's the most blatant attempt at putting words in my mouth that I've seen this game. I said interesting, a word that has none of the same connotation, on this or any board, and I would thank you to slow your goddam roll for a second and read what I actually wrote. Interesting, that is, bearing interest - his claim was a topic of discussion and personal reflection, and I never said one way or the other how I felt about it. Except, oh wait, yes I did. I explicitly said that it wasn't a tell, and that reading into it would be different for each person.

So tell me, do I still need a reason?



God damn it, I have to go to class now. I hope the rest of you don't think this is over; more when I get back.
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Dariush

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Re: Paranormal Mafia Round 18
« Reply #179 on: February 15, 2011, 12:59:10 pm »

Okay. Unvote Toaster.

MBP. Flimsy reasoning, taken the game's been going on this long. Seriously. The kook claim was a bad reason in RVS already, and now it is even worse.

Also, which both are vaguely suspicious, Toaster and me or Web and Book?
What do we have here? The most blatant chainsaw defence I've ever seen, and right at the moment when your buddy falls under risk of the lynch. Unvote, Ottofar.

PPE: Argh. Now it looks like a bandwagon...
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