Also, webadict, you do realize most of my posts come from a phone?
... So? I see not what this has to do with me.
Webadict's... Getting lynched on D1?
Never seen that one before.
I think.
Try claiming War Vet.
JanusTwoFace, Toaster: If you were scum, and had decided to fakeclaim kook, how soon would you do it? What's your view on Person's policy-lynch of all kooks who don't claim D1?
I wouldn't. If I did (or if I were a Kook), I would probably claim via PM to 1-3 people on Day 1. So far as policy-lyches, I think it's kind of extreme. If there's no better target, it's not a bad idea to lynch a late Kook claim because it's a last straw measure. But if there is, it's a policy lynch.
Why would claiming as the others have today be any worse? Claiming Day 1 allows the saving of Town resources, and the worst that could possibly happen is WIFOM.
JTF, what is your opinion on Mr.Person?
There's a decent chance that he's scum based mostly on meta. He's acting like he normally does as scum.
Janus: Of the five people you asked questions here, which two are the most suspicious? Do you think your Org vote is doing any good?
Webadict feels like he always does (an arrogant asshole with delusions of usefulness, see the spoiler for more on that) and hasn't answered the question I asked.
I don't really think NativeForeigner is scum, my main point against him had already been answered, I just missed it. Ottofar feels scummy, but that could be explained by his PFP as always. Leafsnail feels like he was
I really think we should lynch Org. Yes, it's a policy lynch. Nothing else has done any good though.
Yeah. Poor you. You just had to be scum, didn't you?
I can't believe you're actually suggesting is a policy lynch is somehow better than scumhunting. Thanks for participating in our game, Janus. It's nice to see that you really can't get a good read on anyone. You're resorting to some lowest form of scumhunting.
Terrible.
blah blah blah
For one: That's the scale of wall of text that goes well beyond being useful into useless. Too much to parse, people will tend to just ignore it. Particularly when a good part of it is repeating/answering things that have already been answered.
And yet, if you're town, you probably should. I even gave a synopsis at the end. Of course, I could take your approach and simply yell lynch Org over and over. That usually works. Screw logical reasoning, statistical analysis, and intuition. Let's policy lynch our way through this game.
Let's start with those that want policy lynches.
So far as I can tell, you're voting me for joking, policy lynch on Org, and answering questions for you.
For the first two, take the last 5 Paranormal games:
Paranormal 17 (town) - Policy lynch on Org, no joke
Paranormal 16 (town) - Policy lynch on Org, joke
Paranormal 15 (dopp) - Neither
Paranormal 14 (town) - Policy lynch on Org, joke
Paranormal 13 (dopp) - No policy lynch, joking tone
I've joked as town and as scum. I've not actually gone after an Org policy lynch as scum.
Answering you I already explained. However, you seem to be conveniently ignoring that fact despite bringing the 'answering' up (with the same quote no less) again and again.
And yet, you seem to think going back to... May of 2010 would somehow be alright. That's the last time you joked. So, I'm more interested in the here and now. You know, the time that wasn't 9 months ago. Yeah. That time.
So, I enjoy your attempt to counter my arguments with old meta, as opposed to simply saying meta arguments are bad in general.
In fact, you seem to be defending yourself by saying you never go for the policy lynch as scum. THAT'S a bad meta argument.
I can understand that. What I meant to say was you cracked a joke. You made a joke, and it was to make your RV funny, instead of serious, so you're not trying to be suspicious. That's the point.
Specifically to this:
- It wasn't a Random Vote. I want Org lynched.
- I don't like RVS. It rarely actually produces anything, there's just not really a universally better alternative.
(As an aside to the Org vote, there's this little gem, you seem to have forgotten that).
Either way, you joked. That was my argument. You can hate RVS, but then actually do something. Your policy lynch on Org somehow seems to make you think that you no longer have to participate in scumhunting because you'll just sit there and say, "Hey Org. Don't hate: participate!" Meanwhile, you seem to think no one should ever question you for this.
So, you don't want to participate at all.
In the original context, I wanted to know why three people were voting Argembarger. Nowhere did I say that Toaster was particularly scummy, just that he was the most suspicious of the three. An impressive example of taking something out of context.
Well, that's clearly my bad. I shouldn't equate SUSPICIOUS with SCUMMY. Just back the whole track up.
Focusing on the Kooks is a nowhere road, as at least one of them is Town. You've got better odds of hitting scum by shooting randomly into the crowd of non-Kook-claimers.
Why is one of them town?
I personally believe both are Town.
Plus, in Bastard Paranormal, the scum didn't win. So, your point is extraordinarily moot. You've only successfully proven that you're part of the hard-headed idiots that you seem to be afraid of.
Sure it did. I was the scum, and I won. I also did fakeclaim kook D1 (not on thread, but on PM to the agent), so I stand by my assessment that it's a perfectly viable (if ballsy) tactic for scum. But yes, I grant that I'm one of the "hard-headed idiots" the phrase refers to. I think I'm justified there too, though.
Right. So, people that claim Kook in thread aren't scum. We're agreed.
The Exterminator is your enemy? Why are you so focused on the Exterminator? Oh, I know. It's because you're a doppelganger. That's why. There's no point in finding an Exterminator on Day 1. You are an idiot if you think you could possibly influence the Exterminator to pick the ULTIMATE gear.
Yes, the exterminator is my enemy. Isn't he yours? Sure, we won't find him D1, but I won't help him. Yes, I do think there are some mighty clever tech combinations possible, and no, I won't detail them now, I'd rather they're not picked by the ext if there is one. I thought that answering the question honestly ("no") was better than just listing lame gear outright, but I'm OK with either option; what I won't do is give solid advice. Incidentally (Jim), this is different than talking about "who would you kill tonight" and similar questions, as a) the Ext is alone, no team to consult, and b) kills depend too much on circumstance, where tech is a strategic D1 choice.
You seem to be taking my words wrong. I'm saying that the Doppelgangers are going to be worrying more about the Exterminator than the Town should at this point.
Also, the Exterminator has an Operative some of the time. Your insistence on not answering the question with increasing scummy reasoning is much more anti-Town than whatever you might say. Idiot.
Nope. I said massclaim. I do want all Kooks to claim, though. It's not really all that fishy, if you think about it. It's only suspicious if it were a game like BM, where there are few roles to begin with.
I found your wording fishy, as it read as in favour of massclaim, but I interpreted it in context as a kook massclaim; you have clarified that, though. But yes, I think people calling for a D1 massclaim is misguided. I read your argument in favour, and I think it's bunk. It's better for the town not to massclaim D1, and I find those who propose it to be misguided, and if they insist, scummy.
I am in favor of massclaiming. But, I never told anyone to do it.
I love your rebuttal, however. "It's bunk." You sure told me. I've got another argument for you: reasoning. Of course, seeing as how you're hard-headed and an idiot, I'm not going to expect any from you.
You, sir, are full of shit.
You, ma'am, are even fuller. ;-P
Jokes are never welcome. Not only do I intend to make this serious business, I will use that as evidence against you.
Bite me. We've had this conversation before: I do not subscribe to the notion that "MAFIA IS SRS BUSINESS!" I like to have fun when I'm playing a game, and I'll continue to do it. Don't make me break out the limericks.
And yet, when you're trying to lynch someone, you're very serious. So, I have to say that clashing these two together is a bad idea. Especially since I can now argue this:
It's bunk.
Because apparently if it's good enough for you, it's good enough for me.
like painting town to be the bad guy for doing something else. Like what [Toaster is] doing here. [about MBP]
So, Toaster is painting town to be the bad guy? What makes you think MBP is town? Do you know something we don't? Or is it that you want us to believe "wait and see" is something only town does? Mighty suspicious of you, Jokerman.
The irony is that you yourself are voting for Toaster at this point. And yet you're defending him? Either you don't believe Toaster is acting scummy enough to agree with him, or you believe Toaster isn't doing that, but either way, that's Toaster's concern. Not yours. Why are you protecting the player you're voting for?!? Why are you attempting to calm down a player you yourself stirred up?!?
A vote at that stage doesn't mean I am sure the person is scum, we're stirring discussion, and things may go either way. I wasn't defending Toaster, I was dissecting Jokerman's objection. And if I wanted to calm him down I wouldn't have FoS'd him to begin with. Instead of dragging it out, I asked the direct question, which he answered. This doesn't clear him, the slip and his correction stand for people to read as evidence as they wish, but I didn't see a point in dragging it out further.
Right. You're sure that this person is a Kook. That makes it okay to NOT ATTACK ANYONE EVER, right? Or, to be more precise, to attack them once and take it back, defending whatever crap excuse you can come up with.
I, however, like how you say it is both a null tell and making them people of interest. That means that you believe they are in someway more likely to be scum or something. [...]Also, you've managed to backtrack slightly. You claimed earlier that claiming Kook is a null tell.
Interesting =/= scummy. It certainly is interesting, and attracts attention, which I'm happy to provide. Also, there's no backtrack. Kook claim in itself is a null tell, but nothing happens in a vacuum. The timing, circumstances, reactions and so on provide valuable insight which may tip the scales one way or the other. I think Toaster is scum, not because he claimed kook (null tell), but because how he claimed it (scummy). The rest of his play also reads scummy to me, so it fits better with the fakeclaim scenario.
You're right. Instead of claiming it and having Town resources be used efficiently, he should have done what you did as scum. Claiming in the first post of the game with town information is clearly scummy. How dare he!
Toaster, I'm going to say this pretty clearly: you didn't do anything wrong. You're doing it right. Don't ever think otherwise. Book here admits to being a hard-headed idiot. Therefore, you can fell free to ignore his insistence on such craptastic arguments.
He'll try to turn the nulltell into a scumtell somehow.
But the problem is that they don't want them to be considered more likely to be Town. I do. They are more likely to be Town. [...] It is a slight town tell, if only because the statistics prove it is. [...] And it's due to simple statistics. I'll use the last three games as evidence:
Two points:
a) your calling them town is precisely why it's a viable tactic. Nothing better for a scum than to be called "likely town" by the likes of you.
b) your statistics are bunk. There's nowhere enough data points for your results to be statistically significant, and you know it; the weights in Meph's script are unknown to us, could in principle result in a game with zero or four kooks, and the "evidence" you cite is Gambler's Fallacy at its finest.
Right. I'm actually saying it's more likely to be true BECAUSE you say it isn't. Even if there aren't enough points for my result, there's not enough AGAINST it either. You seem to forget that conveniently.
And no. There has always been at least one Kook. there will always be at least one Kook. Do not attempt to WIFOM the Town again with your horsecrap. You stupid moron.
At most what you can say is that there's likely to be "one or more" kooks, leaving the door wide open for either a second one, a scum fakeclaim, or a townie kook who hasn't claimed by now, and won't since if he's the third to claim he'll be lynched for sure (which is why a scum fakeclaim needs to get in fast).
Right. So, maybe instead of sitting there trying to turn it into a scumtell, DO SOME ACTUAL SCUMHUNTING. Jesus Christ.
Question for you: if you were a townie kook, and hadn't claimed by now, would you claim as third kook?
I wouldn't have waited until now to do that. Point is moot.
Focusing on the Kooks is a nowhere road, as at least one of them is Town. You've got better odds of hitting scum by shooting randomly into the crowd of non-Kook-claimers.
Again your statistics are bunk. If at least one of them is town, and you have independent scummy reads on the other one, you have better chance of hitting scum by lynching the possible-fakeclaimer than randomnly lynching one of the other dozen players.
NO YOU DON'T! YOU'RE MAKING THINGS UP! HOLY GOD!
I haven't made many arguments on Toaster yet, mostly because it's intuition-based on his tone & timing, but there's [1], [2], and I'm still surprised by how fast his claim was: twenty minutes and six posts into the game. Too eager for my tastes, really seems designed to preempt a counterclaim.
As I said, not much, but he's a cryptic fellow.
Right. That means he had no chance to confer with any possible scummates he'd have, which is what I'd do if I were fakeclaiming Kook as scum. Ottofar following it up means he ALSO had no chance to talk.
SO, REMEMBER WHEN YOU SAID IT WAS A NULLTELL?!?
Yeah, I didn't think you did. I think it is now acceptable to call you a hard-headed idiot. And scum.
Bullshit, getting the claim in preemptively is more important that consulting with your buddies. It's not like you would seek permission from your team before making a bold decision that was time sensitive. You'd get it in right away. So would I. Buddies can catch up later. That's the right way to play the fakeclaim. For the null tell part, I address that above.
Yeah. Playing against your team is the way to go.
"Hey gaiz, I is gunna claim cook. kthxbai!"
That's the spirit of teamwork.
The hard-headed idiots are you. You're voting Toaster at this very moment! You've got little more evidence against him other than he claimed Kook. So, idiot, how hard-headed will you remain?
I find interesting how important it is to you that I move my vote. Why are you so concerned about Toaster? Why do you want so badly for me to unvote him? How blatant a chainsaw are you prepared to do about it? I find your concern for his fate scummy, webadict.
Yeah. I care if he gets lynched by your terrible arguments. If you want to lynch him, try making argument based on something other than "HE CLAMED KOOKIE!" you moronic twit.
Web: If Janus hadn't made the joke, who would you be voting? Also, I don't see your case on Argembarger.
Book. Hands down. And I haven't made a good case for Argembarger yet.
My answer was noncommittal because I'm not sure. My gut feeling says that he's scummy, but that's tempered both by the fact that I'm annoyed with him right now (thus not necessarily looking at it objectively) and that he always does this. Also he tends to either get nightkilled or attract inspections during the early nights, so he's usually better to deal with later in the game.
I think Day 1 (particularly in a role heavy game like Paranormal) is a time to basically feel out people's playstyle and learn a bit about new players. With 1 lynch and 1 nightkill, plus any nightactions there's a lot more information to go off during Day 2 and a lot more pertinent questions to ask.
If there's anyone being spectacularly scummy, then lynch them--with the annendum that new players should usually get a Day 1 excuse otherwise they're not likely to come back. Then, if there's not anyone jumping out as overly scummy and there's anyone being particularly annoying or unhelpful, lynch them. Right now, we have a few mislynches to spend. Later, we won't.
Because you don't want to vote for me unless other people do, do you? You're trying to avoid OMGUSing me. SCUMBOY!
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Topic: Paranormal Mafia Round 18 - Game Over (Read 126464 times)