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[Jim Groovester]

Forgot I actually wanted to ask about this.

Toaster:
You vote MBP for assuming the passive position, which is a viable strategy, considering that this is first day and almost nothing happened. In all probability he could simply lurk his way to the next important event and nobody would bat an eye. Also, he said nothing about everyone sitting back and waiting. This looks remarkably like looking for easy lynch targets.

While I disagree with you, why do you think the wait and see approach is a viable town strategy?

[JanusTwoface]

Back (obviously).

If I missed any questions directed at me, let me know. I didn't do it on purpose.


First, answers:

JanusTwoface, you basically entered the game by claiming we were all scum. It was a joke. I don't like it. I'm voting you. You're going to stay voted, especially since you defended massclaiming in a question to me. Not really pleased with any of that.

I honestly didn't see the 'To Web' part of MBP's post and the first part of the post was directed at me so I assumed the rest was.

They could coast to victory, but only if no-one scum hunted. Which is *exactly* why I want you to. Why do you refuse to do so?

What makes you say MBP isn't scum hunting?

He's doing a bit better this game, but it still feels like a token effort. Judging from the little meta I have of him, that'd be a null tell at the time being.

So, why did you pick those three people to ask questions? And what was that question supposed to reveal about Ottofar?

I picked them at random. I wanted to see if Ottfar would draw any conclusions. I do find it interesting that he brought up being hard to read.


Now questions:

@webadict:
- Here you claimed that scum would know all of the roles but 2 (possibly all of them) by Day 3. How did you arrive at that particular number?

@Org:
- Any ETA on some content?

@NativeForeigner:
- What do you mean by 'two jester like roles'?

@Ottofar:
- Why did you vote Toaster *after* finding out there had been two kooks in a previous game?

@Leafsnail:
- Your random vote question against Argembarger. What was your goal in asking it?

[NativeForeigner]

@NativeForeigner:
- What do you mean by 'two jester like roles'?

This.

[JanusTwoface]

@NativeForeigner:
- What do you mean by 'two jester like roles'?

This.

Oops.

Although as counterpoint, two Kooks isn't by any means impossible. Mephansteras' program is based on weighting roles. Kooks are weighted against the town, but all that means is that more Kooks means more powerful town roles. Nothing in the rules stops there being any number of them.

Another question:
Here you admit to active lurking saying you post more Sunday/Monday. Well today is Sunday and you've had a couple ([1] [2]) one line posts and the single word response just there. What's your next step?

[Jim Groovester]

So, why did you pick those three people to ask questions? And what was that question supposed to reveal about Ottofar?

I picked them at random. I wanted to see if Ottfar would draw any conclusions. I do find it interesting that he brought up being hard to read.

Is interesting anything, well, interesting?

[NativeForeigner]

@NativeForeigner:
- What do you mean by 'two jester like roles'?

This.

Oops.

Although as counterpoint, two Kooks isn't by any means impossible. Mephansteras' program is based on weighting roles. Kooks are weighted against the town, but all that means is that more Kooks means more powerful town roles. Nothing in the rules stops there being any number of them.

Another question:
Here you admit to active lurking saying you post more Sunday/Monday. Well today is Sunday and you've had a couple ([1] [2]) one line posts and the single word response just there. What's your next step?

I said unlikely, not impossible. Especially considering that there has been two kooks before.

I haven't had the attention span to post effectively today (it's Sunday, go figure), but I will tomorrow in between classes. There will be questions and accusations and more!

Tomorrow.

[Book]

What about your read?

Too early to tell, really, but so far:
Toaster: scummy.
Ottofar: neutral.

Why?

Toaster is suspicious first because of his immediate kook claim. He seemed too eager to get on the ground floor, preempting any actual kooks claiming ahead of him. This is the best way to play it if you are scum fakeclaiming it, and Toaster is savvy enough and hard enough to read to get away with it. If Ottofar had claimed first, then Toaster would, I think, not have claimed at all. But that's not all. Toaster's posts so far have been noncommittal and give me the impression that he's trying to attack without fully engaging, which is how I've seen him play scum.

I don't know him to be scum, but he's at the top of my suspicion list. He doesn't have any clear scumtells so far, so it's just my intuition based on the tone and timing of his posts, rather than actual evidence, which is why I'm not presenting a strong case against him or trying to convince others yet.

For reference, anyone who doesn't claim kook d1 and tries to claim kook later on is scum. End of story. There is no reason whatsoever not to claim kook d1. [...] Alright, I'll bite. What good reason is there to not claim Kook? I can't even imagine.

We've had this conversation before. We clearly don't agree, but we don't have to. There are good reasons for claiming (what you cite), and for not claiming (not to deal with the 'hard-headed idiots', etc); there are good reasons for scum fakeclaiming it (some consider it a "slight town tell" and is an alibi against inspection), there are good reasons for scum not fakeclaiming it (attracts attention). Just as you oppose my finding it suspicious, I oppose your "lynch non-kook-claimaints-D1" policy. Everyone will vote however they want. No matter how many times you say "end of story", everyone writes their own story.

Feel free to question kooks since there's a higher than normal chance they're scum, but you can't do a lynch-all-kooks program.

Yes, I'll question them, and vote them if I find them suspicious. I'm not advocating a policy lynch, unlike you.

@Book: Why made you think Jokerman said MBP was town. You definetly glossed over the issue, which I find to be VERY scummy coming from you since I know it was intentional.

He did mean MBP was town. Let's look at the exchange in detail, with context restored:

Finally, to get back to scumhunting; I'm reading everyone post intently, and looking for clues. I'm not asking much question day 1, since nothing much happened yet. You'll see later on

What if everyone takes the "wait and see" approach?  If no one jumps out and takes the initiative, how will you find scum?

Someone always jumps out; someone like you, Toaster. For one thing, I'm a big proponent of the "wait and see" approach, and your attack on it is the same level of bullshit that it's been every time you've used it on me: it works for me, I know what I'm doing, and it's never been a tool I've used as scum because, guess what, scum has better things to do, like painting town to be the bad guy for doing something else. Like what you're doing here.

He's saying to Toaster "your attack is [...] bullshit", referring to his attack on MBP, since he ends it with "like what you're doing here." What's he's doing here is attacking MBP for "wait and see"; which Jokerman calls this "painting town to be the bad guy", clearly indicating in context that the "town" is MBP. Am I reading it incorrectly? What "attack" of Toaster is bullshit, then? Which "town" is he painting as the bad guy?

I didn't gloss over the issue; I asked him the direct question: "Do you think MBP is town?" He replied in the negative, so I let it go.

[Book]

That's that for pending answers. Now some questions:

Pandarsenic, webadict: who are your top scum picks so far?

JanusTwoFace, Toaster: If you were scum, and had decided to fakeclaim kook, how soon would you do it? What's your view on Person's policy-lynch of all kooks who don't claim D1?

Argembarger, Jokerman: Please tell me your read on webadict, JTF and Ottofar.

Jim Groovester, Ottofar: If you were scum, who would you drop tonight and why? What's your take on Leafsnail, Toaster and Pandar so far?

Dariush: You have been unusually quiet. Who are your top scum picks? Do you think there's an Exterminator? If you were a kook, would you have claimed? What's your read on Mr.Person and JimG?

[Jim Groovester]

Jim Groovester, Ottofar: If you were scum, who would you drop tonight and why? What's your take on Leafsnail, Toaster and Pandar so far?

This is an excellent question.

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Let's see.

I think the choice is mostly arbitrary from my perspective, but I'm actually leaning towards Jokerman-EXE and Argembarger. All the usual people I'd expect to give me strong town vibes aren't so far. People like JTF and Toaster. Leafsnail would be up there as well, but I haven't paid too much attention to him so far and I don't really expect town vibes from him usually. Jokerman-EXE and Argembarger are players, for one reason or another, I think are town. I know Argembarger hasn't posted in a while but I get town vibes from what he has, and Jokerman-EXE is mostly in the same boat.

Since I'm leaning town on them, I'd think about getting rid of either of them. They're about equivalent in my opinion.

I think everybody else is floundering around uselessly, and so aren't really worth getting rid of until they focus up. Seriously, we don't even have a clear lynch target yet. webadict's ahead in votes but I don't really see him as scum quite yet.

Oh, shit. I didn't use this as an opportunity to prove a point. So I retract all that I said. I don't want to give the doppelgangers any good ideas from my speculation, so I'm just going to outright refuse. You understand. You pulled the exact same bullshit.

Leafsnail: He's sailed beneath my notice. I don't really have a strong opinion about him but he seems town enough so far.

Toaster: Toaster, is.... I don't know. I'm nervous about him. Yeah, two kook claims aren't impossible, but I'm still nervous anyway. His contributions have been pretty average, in my opinion/recollection, so he hasn't really done anything to make me less nervous.

Pandarsenic: Lurky lurk lurk no read.

[Jokerman-EXE]

I might have missed it if there were questions directed at me (I did a basic reread, but I'm exhausted so forgive me if I did).

Webadict is being suspiciously loud this game. I mean, he's always loud and, well, WUBA, but this game it feels as though he's trying too hard to defend himself before evolving into an attack on Jim. I expected the attack sooner, to be honest, and it felt as though he wasn't playing as he usually does as Town, though that's been abated a bit.

JTF...it's never easy for me to read JTF, but I feel like he's giving off a more Town vibe. His posts have been constructive and he's been voicing suspicions and pursuing scum. All in all, Town read.

Ottofar is being Ottofar, as Pandarsenic said. Out of all three, I'd have to say he's the most scummy to me: his claim was interesting, to say the least. However, from there, he's been more and more scattered, and not making all that much sense. He's also not pursuing scum at all; only answering questions and leaving it at that.

Ottofar, who are your top suspicions? I'm also curious as to your answer to Book's question.

[Jim Groovester]

Book, a question in turn.

What do you make of Mr.Person trying to incriminate me through Ottofar's slipup? You asked Dariush about him and me, so you must think something's interesting about it. Care to share?

JTF, what is your opinion on Mr.Person?

[Book]

Book, a question in turn.
What do you make of Mr.Person trying to incriminate me through Ottofar's slipup? You asked Dariush about him and me, so you must think something's interesting about it. Care to share?

I think Person's posts so far this game have been scummy. All of them. His reaction to the kook stuff, about your reaction to my ext answer, his rehashing of Jokerman's old slip, his support for a D1 mass claim, his reaction to your vote, and so on, all have been framed in a way that leaves me with a bad scummy taste. He seems to be argumentative just to be argumentative, trying too hard to wave the "scumhunting townie" flag, rather than actually trying to get information or reads on people. He's second on my scum list after Toaster.

The third, before you ask, is tied between Leafsnail and the lurkers (Dariush/Org/Pandar). But the day is still young. Speaking of which, it doesn't seem we've made enough progress for the day to end tomorrow, and I expect some people will have plans, so I propose an Extension.

[Jim Groovester]

I'll second that extension. There's not enough progress yet to end the day.

Could you also refer me to your arguments on Toaster, or just rephrase them so that I can look over them and either agree with them or pick at them?

[Book]

Could you also refer me to your arguments on Toaster, or just rephrase them so that I can look over them and either agree with them or pick at them?

I haven't made many arguments on Toaster yet, mostly because it's intuition-based on his tone & timing, but there's [1], [2], and I'm still surprised by how fast his claim was: twenty minutes and six posts into the game. Too eager for my tastes, really seems designed to preempt a counterclaim.

As I said, not much, but he's a cryptic fellow.

[Jim Groovester]

I see where you're coming from, but even if all my intuition tells me that somebody is scum I usually need to have something concrete that I can use as the anchor for the vote. Generally the most evident example of why I think somebody's scum.

The speed of Toaster's claim is certainly interesting, and if I wanted to be paranoid, suspicious, but it's not an exceptionally terrific reason to use for a vote. I'll grant you Toaster is exceptionally wily, but even if you're playing with Wile E. Coyote, you still need a concrete reason.