I'm shocked I got this far without any posts by me or votes against me. I'm a ninja! Here's what I've got so far.
I'm taking this oppurtunity to say I fully support massclaiming today, tomorrow, any day, any game, anytime.
Toaster, I find two kooks unlikely.
Unless there's been a game with two before?
Zathras, I claimed already. I wouldn't have if Toaster hadn't. See above.
So wait, if Toaster hadn't of claimed you wouldn't of? Why? How does that make any sense? How does Toaster claiming kook affect you claiming kook?
For reference, anyone who doesn't claim kook d1 and tries to claim kook later on is scum. End of story. There is no reason whatsoever not to claim kook d1.
Book, as the exterminator, which techs would you pick?
I find the timing of your question interesting: are you an ext, looking for help in figuring out what to pick? I will leave your question unanswered, in case there is an Ext out there (whether it's you or not) I'd rather not assist with tech choices. Let him pick the lamest ones.
Pfffft, this is lame. What's the point of asking RVS questions if you're just going to refuse to answer them?
If there is an Exterminator out there with half a brain he won't need your advice on it, and if he does need advice on tech choices he'll probably reveal himself in other ways. So just answer the question.
Ottofar, if you think two kooks are unlikely, why aren't you willing to vote Toaster over it?
Why is the answer to this RVS question so important that you're bypassing Book's logical reasoning? What's strange is that it's not your RVS question, it's Ottofar's. It's almost as though you don't care about the answer, you just want to paint Book in a bad light. Nice try,
Jim Groovester.
Why are you trying to convince Ottofar into voting Toaster over evidence you know is null-tell? Trying to convince Ottofar to question Toaster is fine. Trying to convince Ottofar to vote Toaster over it is not since that bypasses the question-asking stage, the most important part for us townies. Not that you would know about asking questions or anything since you're a doppleganger.
Because I'm not paying attention.
I'd blame that on Sleep Deprivation, having worked on a school project until 3am.
But yes,Unvote MBP
Vote Toaster.
PPE: It did?
Ah well. My vote's on you for now.
Sleep tim.
No explanation for this vote. No question asking, nothing. Looks like Jim's motivational techniques to get you to make a huge mistake are working as intended.
So I see. Yes, gambler's fallacy notwithstanding, I find it suspicious of both of you, though I think Toaster would be better at getting away with it as scum strategy.
Toaster: yes, extra attention is garnered, but as we saw in earlier games, if it can be withstood it leaves the person almost confirmed-townie and won't be inspected, which is an ideal position for a crafty scum.
And in what way is claiming kook suspicious? How is it more suspicious than anything else? Yes, scum would do it, but you know else does it? Kooks. Feel free to question kooks since there's a higher than normal chance they're scum, but you can't do a lynch-all-kooks program. Not only would you lynch kooks 90% of the time, it would discourage anyone from actually claiming kook in the first place.
Your position here is textbook WIFOM. "Scum wouldn't want to get attention. Since I know they don't want attention, anyone getting attention must be town. So what if they know I know attention is bad. Then they'd attract attention. So anyone who attracts attention must be scum!"
No, just stop it. Don't spread this shit around, just stop. Question the kooks if you want or question someone else, I don't care. You don't need to justify asking questions.
Who the fuck is going to care about what tech choices you would've taken by Day 2?
It's a decent RVS question. Your refusal is bullshit. You have a problem with people getting reads on you? Because that's more important than whatever inconsequential speculation you make up.
Seriously, get over yourself. If there is an Exterminator I doubt he's going to be hanging on to your every word.
How is this a decent RVS question? How does Book's response possibly implicate or exonerate him? And how is Book's idea of not wanting to help an exterminator out "inconsequential? If there's a beginner extie or clueless extie, they're very likely to take Book's advice if it's logical. This has nothing to do with Book being reliable or knowledgeable since Book could very just be recycling things other people have said. But oh no, this particular question you didn't ask is SO FUCKING IMPORTANT you HAVE to have the answer NOW! Nevermind the question is actually irrelevant and potentially helpful to a noob extie.
You don't even know what Ottofar was thinking when he asked this. It looks like Ottofar didn't really care and just used this as any old RVS question. So the logical course would of been to ask another question or, better yet, ask more deeply into why Book isn't answering this one. You did neither. Instead, you stuck your fingers in your ears and demanded Book answer this question or be scum. The only reason I can think of to take such an asinine stance is that you want to implicate Book via any methods necessary.
I'd vote you for your refusing to answer a question but I'm already voting you.
Everything worked out great!
Oh, ok. So when Book does answer the question anyways you just go ahead and hold your vote. That's just stupid. Let's not ask Book questions or listen to what Book is saying, let's just take a stance of "do X or you're scum" and disregard the other person's reasoning for why doing X is a bad idea. Herp derp.
Webadict, how could massclaiming help ? At worst that would reveal cops and guardians to the dopp, or cause myslinchs if they refuse to reveal. Can't see it helping.
I think he meant a kook massclaim. But yeah, fishy.
In what way is this fishy? Everyone else at least had the decency to explain themselves (poorly), yet you just try to coast by with everyone else's reasoning. Interesting.
Oh , this tripe again.
Whatever Org may be, consistent attack on him for being Org is lazy. This tripe is getting old.
To Web, leeway or not you cause hard situation for some town roles. Guardians should never claim, since they are(in my opinion) the most powerfull town role. Claiming is idiotic ( at least until late game) since you basically sacrifice yourself. Not claiming is the same, youll get mislynched or the scum will catch on to it and NK. Scum is hardly that impared. Sure thing like reporter or scan can invalidate the claim, but again they know who to target. You could protect guardians and scans by using pm etc, but again why massclaim in the first place ?
Because there's an optimal arrangement of power roles that will result in the best power roles getting protections and inspections. Any other arrangement is suboptimal. There's a myriad of ways for the town to use their PR. There's about 100-200 for the scum to use theirs. If you focus on one aspect, the mafiakill vs protections, let's assume there's 2 town-based protections floating around and the only kill is by the mafia. There's 12 (I think, let's say 12) arrangements for the mafia. There's a definitive best player for them to kill, which they'll pick based on the day game. There's 144 arrangements for the town here, one of which is optimal. It's far more likely to get a suboptimal arrangement than the optimal one for the town, but the scum's chances are actually pretty good.
Sure, D1 MC results in the town's PR's getting killed, but if the mafia are killing based on PR and ignoring the day game, the town's day game is enhanced. So either the town gets an enhanced day game or more PR information. Win-win. Sure, guardian's don't actually stop the mafiakill, but there's bigger fish to fry, like catching the scum with information traps.
Granted, there's a good reason not to D1 MC; if we do, there won't be a lot of scumhunting since we'll wind up talking about roles for 90% of the time left in the game.
That's lazy of you JTF. I could go with a NO YOU but that aint my style. Of course scum-hunting could make the town get a win, but with most power roles out town got almost no breathing room. Worst if there also Sk, aliens, etc.
I'm against Webadict idea of a massclaim, thus voted him. Currently explaining the reasons why that massclaim idea would be more nuisible to town more than to scum. Again, he said it was only a strategy option, but i find the idea would be weird coming from town, and so here we are.
Yes observant guard is also a good thing, but again not present all the time, and assasin bot/bombs etc would make that useless.
Finally, to get back to scumhunting; I'm reading everyone post intently, and looking for clues. I'm not asking much question day 1, since nothing much happened yet. You'll see later on
Aw, the eternal problem. You see, you're actually not scumhunting. You're scumlooking, but you ain't hunting. You're hunting as much as a man sitting in his house hoping a deer will walk in.
Alright, what have you managed to learn, so far?
I believe that one of them is lying. My first guess would be that toaster is the one lying, and want to use it as a cover (like Zath never stop talking about). I have trouble believing that scum would claim to be the second Kook.
Toaster, wait and see is not what i do all game. Theres not much information around, and so, i simply keep reading. When i see something interesting I ask about it
Why do you have that opinion that scum wouldn't claim to be the second kook? You've brought forth an argument with no reasoning behind it.
Unvote.
What if everyone takes the "wait and see" approach? If no one jumps out and takes the initiative, how will you find scum?
Someone always jumps out; someone like you, Toaster. For one thing, I'm a big proponent of the "wait and see" approach, and your attack on it is the same level of bullshit that it's been every time you've used it on me: it works for me, I know what I'm doing, and it's never been a tool I've used as scum because, guess what, scum has better things to do, like painting town to be the bad guy for doing something else. Like what you're doing here.
I also don't like the way you moved your vote as soon as someone pointed it out. That's just bad in general. If you felt like your question was enough to vote for him, why didn't you pursue it at all? In fact, you just dropped it and asked Meph a question. What's the deal with that?
Scum does not always have something better to do since, get this, a lot of players tend to lurk as scum. You get more active. So your statement is only applicable to yourself, which obviously begs the question why you're attempting to apply it to Toaster. In particular, what makes you so angry that Toaster is mad at MBP for lurking through the day right now? It's perfectly acceptable to be mad at MBP for lurking through the day since it's bullshit. Maybe not a hugeass scumtell or anything, but certainly worth scumhunting MBP over. So what about Toaster's argument is bullshit, exactly?
Unvoting his RVS vote? That's a null tell at best. I expect more questioning from you since you can't possibly have a read on Toaster since he hasn't done anything scummy whatsoever under any stretch of the imagination.
Jokerman: I bug you about the "wait and see" move because I don't like it. I don't like it when anyone does it, hence me going after MBP for doing it. What makes you say MBP is town?
Jokerman didn't say MBP was town. What makes you think he did? Considering you never answered when Jokerman himself asked you. Or was that related to you not being on at all to post?
@Book: Why made you think Jokerman said MBP was town. You definetly glossed over the issue, which I find to be VERY scummy coming from you since I know it was intentional.
In general however, I do agree that a Kook claim in itself is a null tell: it doesn't make people scummy on its own, but it doesn't make them townier either. I caution people from falling into that trap, because fakeclaiming it is a viable (if ballsy/non-optimal) strategy for scum. If you're a kook, there are good reasons for claiming, and there are good reasons not to. People's scuminess will be weighted and decided on other factors.
Alright, I'll bite. What good reason is there to not claim Kook? I can't even imagine. I've put forth a "lynch-all-non-D1-kook-claimers" position that I will be holding. So there's a vote for any late kook claimers (which isn't guaranteed). Pretty sure Webadict is also holding that position. So that's two votes. Waiting on a kook claim hurts the town. It hurts Agents since they'll try to inspect you and waste it. The only situation where an unclaimed-kook is good is in the situation where a scum is fakeclaiming Agent and claimed to inspect a kook and get a town result. Since I think a REAL Agent is more likely than a fake scum one, I'd say kook-claiming-D1 is the ONLY acceptable way to play so as to not waste any Agent inspections.
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Topic: Paranormal Mafia Round 18 - Game Over (Read 126596 times)