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[NativeForeigner]

Native:  Why do you say it'd be unlikely?

I don't regret it at all.  I saw Kook, and my first thought was "Claim it."  I'll do it again next time I roll up Kook.  The best time to claim it is the first post of the game.

It just seems strange that there would be two jester-like roles. However, I see your logic of claiming in your first post, which actually gives me reason to believe you.

[Book]

Someone always jumps out; someone like you, Toaster. For one thing, I'm a big proponent of the "wait and see" approach, and your attack on it is the same level of bullshit that it's been every time you've used it on me: it works for me, I know what I'm doing, and it's never been a tool I've used as scum because, guess what, scum has better things to do.

False. You do use that tactic as scum too, like, say, in a wuba game of recent memory. While it's true that you "wait and see" when town, you also do it as scum; your lying about it now sounds to me like you want to make sure people see your "town meta" so they don't entertain the notion of you being scum.

You, unfortunately, shoot yourself in the foot when you "wait and see" while dropping scumtells like this:

like painting town to be the bad guy for doing something else. Like what [Toaster is] doing here. [about MBP]

So, Toaster is painting town to be the bad guy? What makes you think MBP is town? Do you know something we don't? Or is it that you want us to believe "wait and see" is something only town does? Mighty suspicious of you, Jokerman.

MBP: What do you think about Jokerman calling you "town" at this point of the game? Do you have opinions one way or the other on whether only town does the "wait and see" thing, or of Jokerman's possible motives for saying the above?

So, everyone should step off the Kook claiming thing. Let whoever wants to claim Kook claim Kook. There's nothing scummy about it. But, we'll assume anyone who hasn't claimed Kook is now scum. There. Feel free to freak out about that.

Anybody who wants to claim should, sure. But no, we're not stepping off. It's interesting, important, and a vehicle of inquiry into people's motivations. You feel free to assume anything you want to assume. I'll feel free to step off or not anything I wish.

In general however, I do agree that a Kook claim in itself is a null tell: it doesn't make people scummy on its own, but it doesn't make them townier either. I caution people from falling into that trap, because fakeclaiming it is a viable (if ballsy/non-optimal) strategy for scum. If you're a kook, there are good reasons for claiming, and there are good reasons not to. People's scuminess will be weighted and decided on other factors.

[Mysteriousbluepuppet]

I say he does not know, and should lay it off. My action will speak for themselves, but for now, nobody is town. Again,  it's still only day 1.


Anybody can pretend to observe, but if they don't participate once the game as really started they are lurking. So that's that, I prefer to reserve my comment for day 2, when you can check the lynch votes, and the nk results. Scum can lurk all they want and use that as an excuse, theyll be thrust in the spotlight soonish if they don't actually act on the information they gather.
Basically, everyone equal, i don't like throwing accusations baselessly, but at day 2 you need to show what you got

[Jokerman-EXE]

Someone always jumps out; someone like you, Toaster. For one thing, I'm a big proponent of the "wait and see" approach, and your attack on it is the same level of bullshit that it's been every time you've used it on me: it works for me, I know what I'm doing, and it's never been a tool I've used as scum because, guess what, scum has better things to do.

False. You do use that tactic as scum too, like, say, in a wuba game of recent memory. While it's true that you "wait and see" when town, you also do it as scum; your lying about it now sounds to me like you want to make sure people see your "town meta" so they don't entertain the notion of you being scum.

You, unfortunately, shoot yourself in the foot when you "wait and see" while dropping scumtells like this:

like painting town to be the bad guy for doing something else. Like what [Toaster is] doing here. [about MBP]

So, Toaster is painting town to be the bad guy? What makes you think MBP is town? Do you know something we don't? Or is it that you want us to believe "wait and see" is something only town does? Mighty suspicious of you, Jokerman.

You, sir, are full of shit.

You're looking for a reason to make me out to be scum. And as a matter of fact, that game you mention? The first one in which I didn't wait and see; as a matter of fact, it was my talking that got me killed, in the end. Or maybe you should go look again.

No, I didn't call MBP town, and someone like you who enjoys picking apart peoples' words would be well aware of that. I pointed out that scum can - and does - paint town to be scum. In fact, you accusation only holds water if you read it with the part that you put in yourself. As I said it, it was a hypothetical example concerning what Toaster was saying - but thank you for blatantly putting words in my mouth.

We do, however, agree on the Kook-claim scenario. It's not a tell, and each person will read into it how they will. Trying to force one or the other is not the optimal way to play.

[Book]

You, sir, are full of shit.

You, ma'am, are even fuller.   ;-P

That game you mention? The first one in which I didn't wait and see; as a matter of fact, it was my talking that got me killed, in the end. Or maybe you should go look again.

As I recall you only delurked under extreme pressure, and fully intended to "wait and see" throughout RVS had I not called you out. But let's not rehash arguments from a past game; most players here were there too, and can remember on their own. My only point was not to mistake your "wait and see" attitude for a "town meta" thing, because it isn't. At most it's standard Jokerman personality and says nothing of your alignment.

but thank you for blatantly putting words in my mouth.

I didn't. I merely simplified to give context in a short quote. But never mind, people will read it as they will. I'll instead ask you the direct questions: do you think MBP is town? do you think only town uses the "wait and see" approach?

We do, however, agree on the Kook-claim scenario. It's not a tell, and each person will read into it how they will. Trying to force one or the other is not the optimal way to play.

Agreed. It is, however, interesting, and a worthy topic to start discussion rolling. What's your read on Ottofar so far? What do you make of Wuba's insistence to drop the topic, or the reasons for his vote on Janus?

[NativeForeigner]

Book, what is your fascination with Jokerman? Do you intend to relentlessly assault him again?

Org: What will your feelings be if Book develops another fixation on Jokerman?

[Book]

Heheh... no, not really. I just found it funny. But as I said, I don't wish to rehash old arguments, I was just making a point. The rest are normal questions: what's his read on so and so, when to use which tactic, and so on.

No, no fascination. Not my type. 8-P

[Jokerman-EXE]

I don't really think MBP's town or scum just yet. I'll need to see more out of him before I decide. And no, wait and see isn't a town-only tactic. My problem is that Toaster voted MBP for saying that he had been waiting-and-seeing up to this point. Yes, Toaster said he's throwing his vote around for RVS, but that seems a bit late to me. I may have overreacted, though, so I'll unvote.

Read on Ottofar? Honestly, I feel he's more Town than Toaster at this point, though that's a pretty poor comparison. It would be far, far riskier for scum to claim Kook after Town did - which is not to rule out the possibility of two Kooks at all. What about your read?

As for WUBA, I feel like calling for people to drop it isn't a tell either. I'm actually basically saying the same thing; people read things how they want to read them, so they can go for it. It's not really a matter for discussion until it gets like this, you know? As for his reasons for Janus, I feel like there's plenty of time for it to change, since it's sort of a silly reason anyway. I can see what he's saying, but I feel like he's coming on way too strong.

[Book]

What about your read?

Too early to tell, really, but so far:
Toaster: scummy.
Ottofar: neutral.

[Pandarsenic]

What about your read?

Too early to tell, really, but so far:
Toaster: scummy.
Ottofar: neutral.

Why?

[webadict]

@Joker: Why do you feel my vote isn't justified? What makes you think I'll move it?

[Ottofar]

These not-votes are a perfect example why I shouldn't play while half-asleep.

[JanusTwoface]

I'll be back Sunday afternoon / evening.

PFP

[Mephansteras]

The Whiteboard
Argembarger: Dariush, Leafsnail
Book: Jim Groovester
JanusTwoFace: webadict
Leafsnail: Pandarsenic
Mysteriousbluepuppet: Toaster
Org: JanusTwoFace
Toaster: Book, Ottofar
webadict: Argembarger, Mysteriousbluepuppet



Day ends ~5pm Pacific Monday

[Jim Groovester]

They could coast to victory, but only if no-one scum hunted. Which is *exactly* why I want you to. Why do you refuse to do so?

What makes you say MBP isn't scum hunting?

JanusTwoface, you basically entered the game by claiming we were all scum. It was a joke. I don't like it. I'm voting you. You're going to stay voted, especially since you defended massclaiming in a question to me. Not really pleased with any of that.

So, first you say massclaiming isn't such a bad idea.

Then you give JTF crap for defending massclaiming.

Why are you voting JTF for things you've done?

Janus: Hard to read?

Not particularly. You tend towards harder because you don't post over much. Book and Pandarsenic are in the middle range. Decent guess though.

So, why did you pick those three people to ask questions? And what was that question supposed to reveal about Ottofar?