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Author Topic: Non-dwarven migrants + races not currently included  (Read 1718 times)

Lord Zack

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Non-dwarven migrants + races not currently included
« on: February 10, 2011, 06:27:07 pm »

I've been thinking that maybe you're fortress could have a mixed population of dwarves and non-dwarves. You would be able to control whether or not you accept these migrants. There might be benefits to having members of different races, and they might have weakness too. Dwarves should be better at humans at digging certainly.

Also I've noticed the absence of certain races that might get along well with dwarves, halflings and gnomes.

Certain varieties of halfling (harfoot hobbits in Tolkien and stout/deep halflings in Dungeons & Dragons) have been noted to be friendly with dwarves. Halfling communities would be interesting as they would have both burrows and surface structures. Halfling warriors would be pretty good with ranged weapons, including slings, but also bows, but of course would be worse at melee combat. Halflings would also be good at sneaking.

Gnomes have often been portrayed as not only friendly with dwarves, but as cousins to dwarves. Once/if magic and/or alchemy are introduced they would be especially good at these. In fact dwarves might not have much magic, making gnomes a precious asset.
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Capntastic

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Re: Non-dwarven migrants + races not currently included
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2011, 06:43:32 pm »

This has been suggested, discussed, and planned.  Search the dev notes, etc.  Halflings are D&D stuff and DF isn't D&D; and gnomes are already in the game.
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Lord Zack

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Re: Non-dwarven migrants + races not currently included
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2011, 06:48:40 pm »

Halflings appear in many fantasy stories. They were originally derived from the mythological "hob" or "hobgoblin", however like dwarves, goblins and many other fantasy races they have strayed far from they're mythological roots.
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Capntastic

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Re: Non-dwarven migrants + races not currently included
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2011, 06:54:56 pm »

Yeah but your suggestion for them is pretty much the D&D conception of them word for word.  DF doesn't need to be D&D.
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FallingWhale

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Re: Non-dwarven migrants + races not currently included
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2011, 07:26:06 pm »

I contend that our kobolds are proof that a step from D&D can be awesome.
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Capntastic

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Re: Non-dwarven migrants + races not currently included
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2011, 08:13:20 pm »

DF kobolds aren't dumb draconic rejects though.   Ergo, qed, lorem ipso.

Edit:  Misread 'step' as 'page'.  But yeah, "D&D does it" is never a good reason for anything.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2011, 08:26:21 pm by Capntastic »
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: Non-dwarven migrants + races not currently included
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2011, 08:27:26 pm »

... Then what about Tolkien?

And while we're at it, Warhammer, and Warcraft?
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Capntastic

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Re: Non-dwarven migrants + races not currently included
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2011, 08:28:39 pm »

Warhammer orcs and Warhammer 40k orks are way cooler than Tolkein's goblins and uruk-hai.  They're also fungal based and grow in proportion to how much stuff they kill.
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Pilsu

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Re: Non-dwarven migrants + races not currently included
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2011, 06:55:56 am »

Halflings are just unnecessary. Next thing you know, we'd have humans interbreeding with everything that's deemed "cool" and other yawn-worthy crud ripped off from D&D.
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Max White

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Re: Non-dwarven migrants + races not currently included
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2011, 07:00:45 am »

You know, there is a thread that handles race intergration very well, you might like it!
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=76487.0

Deimos56

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Re: Non-dwarven migrants + races not currently included
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2011, 12:13:58 pm »

Halflings are just unnecessary. Next thing you know, we'd have humans interbreeding with everything that's deemed "cool" and other yawn-worthy crud ripped off from D&D.
I think interbreeding will be going in eventually... though not to the... ludicrous... extent that D&D takes it.
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: Non-dwarven migrants + races not currently included
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2011, 12:25:54 pm »

What, are you saying my half-minotaur can't breed with a water elemental to create a half-aquataur?

How ELSE am I going to create my underwater labyrinth of imprisoned mad scientists?!
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Personally, I like [DF] because after climbing the damned learning cliff, I'm too elitist to consider not liking it.
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Dutchling

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Re: Non-dwarven migrants + races not currently included
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2011, 12:33:48 pm »

Warhammer orcs and Warhammer 40k orks are way cooler than Tolkein's goblins and uruk-hai.  They're also fungal based and grow in proportion to how much stuff they kill.

1) who is Tolkein?
2) BLASPHEMY!
3) *insert random item name here*z: The reason why I hate orcs in warhammer
4) BLASPHEMY!

To say on topic:  ;)
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: Non-dwarven migrants + races not currently included
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2011, 01:07:16 pm »

Warhammer orcs and Warhammer 40k orks are way cooler than Tolkein's goblins and uruk-hai.  They're also fungal based and grow in proportion to how much stuff they kill.

1) who is Tolkein?
2) BLASPHEMY!
3) *insert random item name here*z: The reason why I hate orcs in warhammer
4) BLASPHEMY!

To say on topic:  ;)

All I can really say is... Yes, Lord of the Rings was a good story.  It made for a really cool movie recently, too.  Now can we move on, and maybe give fantasy story writers a little more freedom?  It's been, what, seventy five years?  Maybe we can move out of the shadows of LotR, and introduce some creativity and innovation along with our "inspired by" or "homages to" or "blatantly ripping off" Tolkien?  (The lines between all three of those being very blurry, and up for personal interpretation...)

In fact, all of fantasy seems to follow an arc like this, using ==> to represent the train of "inspiration" and/or "barely evading copyright violation".

Original Norse myth and folktale ==> epic 12th century poem "Nibelungenlied" plus inspiration from Greek tragedy ==> The Ring of Nibelung (Wagnerian Opera "Tetralogy of the Ring")  ==> Lord of the Rings ==> Old D&D ==> Warhammer ==> Warcraft ==> 4th ed D&D

You know, some things about this game are just plain based off of LotR, and OK, fine, but you know what?  The things that make this game stand out are the parts that aren't the same homage to the same books everyone else has been writing an homage to for the better part of the past century.

Killing cannibal elves with magma is our thing.  That's what makes it cool and unique.  Playing with dwarves all by itself is not particularly unique.  I've been playing as dwarves since I was 4 years old, playing the AD&D games on the Commodore 64. 

Just having dwarves isn't particularly cool and unique, but having dwarves that use a drawbridge to fling goblins into a pit filled with tamed sea serpents is cool.  Mermaid fisheries are delightfully amoral.  Undead skeletal whales climbing up from a well to eat your mayor is a surprising and humorous twist on the old story.

I'm not saying we have to reject everything Tolkien did, but maybe we could try requiring more reasoning for putting something into a story than just "Tolkien did it", and maybe ask that people follow up with "and this will make the story better because..."
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Personally, I like [DF] because after climbing the damned learning cliff, I'm too elitist to consider not liking it.
"And no Frankenstein-esque body part stitching?"
"Not yet"

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Durin Stronginthearm

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Re: Non-dwarven migrants + races not currently included
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2011, 03:55:29 pm »

^This.

I'm sure you can mod races in as well, and that people have already done so. You can have your tolkien/d&d/warhammer races if you want, but there's really no need for them in vanilla.
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