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Author Topic: Black History Month  (Read 5555 times)

Leafsnail

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Re: Black History Month
« Reply #45 on: February 09, 2011, 01:45:29 pm »

I'm sorry but what? Let me go over this.
-You support 'Black History Month' and other such events that promote a unique culture.
-You do not support 'White history month', for some unknown reason.
My response to people who ask when white history month is:  "January, March, April, May, June, July, August, September, October, November, December"
Seems like the correct response to me.

Wow, while looking up the boer war, I learned that the British used concentration camp.
Yeah, it was pretty shocking.  Also shocking was how badly the British were beaten by the Boers (who were basically a bunch of Dutch farmers) for so long.  If you're into military history you can go look at how the new invention of smokeless gunpowder screwed up British tactics horribly.
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Urist is dead tome

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Re: Black History Month
« Reply #46 on: February 09, 2011, 03:16:32 pm »

If you're into military history you can go look at how the new invention of smokeless gunpowder screwed up British tactics horribly.

Pretty much everything screwed up military tactics of the Boer War and back. Mud, rain, Indian warfare, not having two hours of preparation.
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redacted123

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Re: Black History Month
« Reply #47 on: February 09, 2011, 03:21:07 pm »

I don't really see how the Boer War necessarily fits into "Black" history given that it was primarily a war fought between two colonial groups. It's only African history because it happened there, it could have happened anywhere really. The only way in which it actually involved native Africans is that the Zulus had been conquered by the British and Boers beforehand.
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Urist is dead tome

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Re: Black History Month
« Reply #48 on: February 09, 2011, 03:40:50 pm »

I don't really see how the Boer War necessarily fits into "Black" history given that it was primarily a war fought between two colonial groups. It's only African history because it happened there, it could have happened anywhere really. The only way in which it actually involved native Africans is that the Zulus had been conquered by the British and Boers beforehand.

In the First Boer War the Zulus were central to the entire war.
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Phmcw

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Re: Black History Month
« Reply #49 on: February 09, 2011, 04:07:56 pm »

Note that I'm all in favor of more learning of history, black, white, red or yellow. And I'm all ears if someone have green history.
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redacted123

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Re: Black History Month
« Reply #50 on: February 09, 2011, 04:15:53 pm »

I don't really see how the Boer War necessarily fits into "Black" history given that it was primarily a war fought between two colonial groups. It's only African history because it happened there, it could have happened anywhere really. The only way in which it actually involved native Africans is that the Zulus had been conquered by the British and Boers beforehand.

In the First Boer War the Zulus were central to the entire war.
Zulus were involved but the war was still essentially a conflict between the British and the Dutch settlers and it was actually quite small and the less significant of the two Boer Wars. The Second Boer War, the one which is most well known about and the war in which concentration camps were first used, was almost exclusively between the British and Dutch. In terms of overall "black" history, the Boer Wars are not particularly significant, which is why they're not brought up that much during Black History Month.
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Phmcw

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Re: Black History Month
« Reply #51 on: February 09, 2011, 04:19:54 pm »

It deserve a mention though, because it radically altered the history of south Africa.
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redacted123

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Re: Black History Month
« Reply #52 on: February 09, 2011, 04:27:05 pm »

True, but South Africa is only one of many African nations and then there are the countless "Black" people who populate the world with no link to South Africa. Of course, South Africa managed to become very important decades after the Boer Wars because of apartheid and that is where South Africa has been most important in "Black" history.
(By the way, the reason I put "Black" in quote marks is because 1) I'm a little uncomfortable using it without because after years of politically correct training it almost feels racist to write even though it is a simple description of skin colour and 2) I don't particularly believe in a unifying "Black" people any more than I do a unifying "White" people or "Asian" people and therefore to refer to a "Black" culture seems wrong.)
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Sir Pseudonymous

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Re: Black History Month
« Reply #53 on: February 09, 2011, 05:24:50 pm »

I'm getting the feeling that Pseudonymous is thinking more along the lines of specific traditions that are part of but not the entirety of some cultures that provide issues with multiple cultures interacting. Like how one culture has a tradition that another culture finds crude and offputting, to remove that one tradition so the two cultures could intermingle peacefully. But even this lighthearted interpretation falls into the same trap of who decides what is right and wrong? Should the culture with the tradition lose it, or should the other culture accept that these people are different but there is no real harm in this tradition?

 I'm not terribly agreeing with him, but he could be pushing for a message that is a bit more innocent than what we are picking up.
Not quite. I don't believe there should be official support or backing for the proliferation or persistence of traditional cultures, whatever they may be. Modern culture has effectively no relation to any traditional culture at this point, as regardless of where various elements ultimately originated they have been warped and altered to an unrecognizable point. Trying to preserve and/or cultivate separate cultures against the annihilating presence of modern culture is doing a gross injustice to those you attempt to preserve it in, because it sets them apart from society. When it is something trivial, like traditional foods or aesthetics, that is different, as it has no bearing on society as a whole. When it is a divisive culture, like that espoused by marginalized elements of any group, such as those Blacks who are impoverished and live in effectively segregated neighborhoods, and in whom a strong persecution complex and hatred of outsiders ends up cultivated, or in the equivalently ill-educated, impoverished, and insular White communities that cultivate much the same persecution complex and hatred, or even something relatively innocuous, like the Amish who reject modern society and technology, then it is something that should not be tolerated by the state.

But, even the trivial and innocuous things, like food, music, etc: why should the state take it upon itself to propagate these things? They are irrelevant to all of society but those for whom it is a personal tradition. They waste money and time attempting to proliferate culture that no one but the people who already practice it gives a shit about.

Ok, cite me three preeminent empire from Africa. Cite me three men who impacted considerably the development of science and are coming from Africa. bonus point if at leas one of hem is not Muslim. Could you make me a brief summary of the colonization? Who did the Boers fight against in the well known war of the Boers? Bonus point : how did all that impact WWI?

If you can't answer, you need one more black history month.
You do realize that the average american couldn't even tell you who was involved in WWI, and would probably say something about nazis, right? They likewise couldn't name any scientist beyond the small handful whose importance is grossly overemphasized, or name any European empire besides the British, which they would be hard pressed to provide any "facts" about beside "they invaded the United States and we kicked der asses!", and the Romans, about whom they could only proclaim "dey killed Jesus and something about water or something!"

When people can't provide facts about the history of things directly responsible for their way of life, why on Earth should they be expected or required to know facts about something that had exactly no bearing on their lives?
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Urist is dead tome

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Re: Black History Month
« Reply #54 on: February 09, 2011, 05:53:44 pm »

You do realize that the average american couldn't even tell you who was involved in WWI, and would probably say something about nazis, right? They likewise couldn't name any scientist beyond the small handful whose importance is grossly overemphasized, or name any European empire besides the British, which they would be hard pressed to provide any "facts" about beside "they invaded the United States and we kicked der asses!", and the Romans, about whom they could only proclaim "dey killed Jesus and something about water or something!"

Please enlighten me, why is this relevant?
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redacted123

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Re: Black History Month
« Reply #55 on: February 09, 2011, 05:56:53 pm »

You do realize that the average american couldn't even tell you who was involved in WWI, and would probably say something about nazis, right? They likewise couldn't name any scientist beyond the small handful whose importance is grossly overemphasized, or name any European empire besides the British, which they would be hard pressed to provide any "facts" about beside "they invaded the United States and we kicked der asses!", and the Romans, about whom they could only proclaim "dey killed Jesus and something about water or something!"

Please enlighten me, why is this relevant?
It's relevant in that he's making the counter point that if white Americans know so little about their own history and world history in general, it would be foolish to think that because they don't know anything about black history, they're somehow discriminating against it.
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Realmfighter

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Re: Black History Month
« Reply #56 on: February 09, 2011, 05:59:02 pm »

Because the fact that the 2-4 scientists most people remember are white is less Racism and more Apathy towards science and history.

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Sir Pseudonymous

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Re: Black History Month
« Reply #57 on: February 09, 2011, 05:59:18 pm »

You do realize that the average american couldn't even tell you who was involved in WWI, and would probably say something about nazis, right? They likewise couldn't name any scientist beyond the small handful whose importance is grossly overemphasized, or name any European empire besides the British, which they would be hard pressed to provide any "facts" about beside "they invaded the United States and we kicked der asses!", and the Romans, about whom they could only proclaim "dey killed Jesus and something about water or something!"

Please enlighten me, why is this relevant?
It's relevant in that he's making the counter point that if white Americans know so little about their own history and world history in general, it would be foolish to think that because they don't know anything about black history, they're somehow discriminating against it.
This.

Although really, it could be translated to almost any non-history buff or fervent nationalist in any society. Most people don't pay attention to that sort of thing, and the education system makes only the most token effort to teach them the barest overview of events, if even that.
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I'm all for eating the heart of your enemies to gain their courage though.

nenjin

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Re: Black History Month
« Reply #58 on: February 09, 2011, 06:11:34 pm »

To be clear, my post wasn't directed at Black History Month.
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Euld

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Re: Black History Month
« Reply #59 on: February 09, 2011, 06:58:55 pm »

After reading all the previous posts... I think a White History Month isn't really necessary, at least in the United States (I can't speak for Britain or Australia).  Most of the history taught in school from first grade to senior year of high school is pretty much all white history.  Discussing the history of other ethnicities stopped being taboo only about two hundred, hundred, fifty, maybe 40 years ago, and schools seem to only go so far as mentioning slavery and imperialism and the disaster such things brought on the other cultures everywhere.

Maybe the 'legacy' of white americans is the problem.  Racism, slavery, genocide, no wonder people say 'white pride' is racist, it's like my early american ancestors had nothing better to do than destroy any culture different from their own.
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