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Strongly Agree

1 (2.9%)

Agree

0 (0%)

Neutral/Tossup

12 (35.3%)

Disagree

13 (38.2%)

Strongly Disagree

8 (23.5%)

Total Members Voted: 34

[SalmonGod]

I pity anyone who thinks that life is about keeping on rails.

[CoughDrop]

I pity anyone who thinks that life is about keeping on rails.

Depends on which train you're taking. 

[SalmonGod]

I pity anyone who thinks that life is about keeping on rails.

Depends on which train you're taking. 

True.  Could be a scenic route.

[Vector]

I'm with SalmonGod.  Nowadays, anyway--now that I no longer feel that I'm constantly suffering.

I suppose my personal feelings are something like "honest work will create true freedom and satisfaction."

... And yes, I do know where we've seen that particular slogan before, but I don't mean it that way at all.  You guys know me better than that... right?

[MetalSlimeHunt]

... And yes, I do know where we've seen that particular slogan before, but I don't mean it that way at all.  You guys know me better than that... right?

OH GOD VECTOR'S A NAZIEVERYONEPANIC!!! [/joking]

Still, I see what you mean. It's a decent slogan on its own, really, just tainted in the public eye by being used as a lie in the Holocaust (I'm not even sure why the Nazis bothered. It's not like they were fooling anyone.).

[Shambling Zombie]

Personally I don't think there's anything which absolutely everyone would find happiness with. One man's life of hard, rewarding work is another's life of pointless toil. Pleasure could be seen as the be-all and end-all for someone, and a hollow experience to others.

Some seek glory and fame, others just want to have comfort.

[SalmonGod]

No alarms and no surprises, please.

[ein]

... And yes, I do know where we've seen that particular slogan before, but I don't mean it that way at all.  You guys know me better than that... right?

OH GOD VECTOR'S A NAZIEVERYONEPANIC!!! [/joking]

Still, I see what you mean. It's a decent slogan on its own, really, just tainted in the public eye by being used as a lie in the Holocaust (I'm not even sure why the Nazis bothered. It's not like they were fooling anyone.).

Same with the swastika.
I keep telling people the Nazi insignia is a swastika drawn a specific way.
All others have no relation to Nazis and are, in fact, very auspicious symbols.

[Vector]

That's why I add the "honest" qualifier.  Honest work should not be forced, or even for a monetary gain.  "Honest" work is pursued for the nature of the work itself, out of passion.  It is intrinsic and any extrinsic rewards are important, but secondary goals.  Raising children can count as honest work, as can being a really good spouse.  I think that an act of labor and love is the easiest way to happiness.


By the way, my step-grandmother grew up in Germany at the wrong time.  She only found out about that stuff a few years ago, and she's in her 80s.  It was better covered up than one might think, really.

[Shambling Zombie]

The swastika is a reversed symbol that means the sun or something I believe.

Nout sure why they reversed it, or if they were just mistaken and had the 'spokes' pointing the wrong way.

[ein]

The Nazi swastika is facing the 'correct' direction.
The one that's reversed is the manji, used in Japan.

[SalmonGod]

That's why I add the "honest" qualifier.  Honest work should not be forced, or even for a monetary gain.  "Honest" work is pursued for the nature of the work itself, out of passion.

This is another aspect that I find very important, but haven't figured out how to write it in.

Freedom is a prerequisite, I think.  Once again, I'm wierd, but the only times I've ever been bored in my entire life is when I'm being forced to spend my time according to someone else's demands.  You can lock me  in a closet, and so long as I have complete personal freedom within that closet, I will continue finding new ways to daydream.  My parent's were still poor when I was little, I didn't have any friends, and there were no interesting natural features where we lived... and I still could always find things to do with my time.  But being forced into a strict routine of mostly sitting in a highly restrictive office atmosphere is agonizing to me, and makes time feel like it's flying by while I wither away. 

There are plenty of people around me who seem to be the complete opposite, though.

[Realmfighter]

I understand what you're saying, but it's something a shade different from pleasure.  Life experiences must vary to give meaning to each other.  Including some pleasure to contrast with the non-pleasure doesn't make everything pleasurable.  It makes it memorable.  I think the entire point of life is nothing other than the raw experience of living it, but it's really easy to fall into lifestyles that have us sleeping through it all.  Our biology begs us to seek least resistance and chemically rewards us when we play along, but this is just one of many ways that we can be our own enemy.

Ask someone whose entire experience of life has been constant maximization of the pleasure centers of the brain to draw a picture of their life, and I bet you'd get a blank sheet of paper.

Yes, but I never said that "Pleasure" is the stimulation of the pleasure center to the Max, I said that pleasure could be anything from meaningless sex all the way to backbreaking labor day in and day out. You can replace "Pleasure" with "Enjoyment" or something else if it makes me easier to understand.

I'd strongly disagree with this one.  People can change... otherwise how do you explain reformed criminals, or people who get their lives back on the rails after troubled times?

People don't change. There situation can Change, and there drive to drive to pull themselves out of the proverbial gutter due to shame, responsibility or drive to be better can change too.

Although, those things Could be used as definition as to who you are as a person.....

[SalmonGod]

I said that pleasure could be anything from meaningless sex all the way to backbreaking labor day in and day out. You can replace "Pleasure" with "Enjoyment" or something else if it makes me easier to understand.

Pleasure and enjoyment are basically the same thing, though

Maybe I don't get what you're saying.  Some people take the stance that the point of life is happiness and happiness is whatever the hell every individual describes as being the point of their life, which renders the entire statement pointless.  Or you're meaning literal pleasure, but that pleasure can come from any source.

I'm saying it's not about pleasure.  It's about fulfillment.  It's about experience being not necessarily positive, but rich.  It's about recognizing that whatever you're feeling, you should go ahead and feel it deeply and sincerely, even if it's misery.  This isn't to derive pleasure from the misery.  It's to have the experience of that state of being absorbed into who you are, and mixing together with all of your other life experiences to make you a more complete person.

[Leafsnail]

People don't change. There situation can Change, and there drive to drive to pull themselves out of the proverbial gutter due to shame, responsibility or drive to be better can change too.

Although, those things Could be used as definition as to who you are as a person.....

That's a really strange way of putting it.  If the situation changes, then that's clearly changed the person too.  I mean... it's pretty clear that none of us are the same as we were when we were, say, 5 years old.