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Poll

"Granting someone a second chance only means they get to screw up twice."

Strongly Agree
- 1 (2.9%)
Agree
- 0 (0%)
Neutral/Tossup
- 12 (35.3%)
Disagree
- 13 (38.2%)
Strongly Disagree
- 8 (23.5%)

Total Members Voted: 34


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Author Topic: Assessing Our Outlooks  (Read 9150 times)

sonerohi

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Re: Assessing Our Outlooks
« Reply #180 on: February 12, 2011, 04:11:40 pm »

Beliefs change, but motives usually stay the same. People want power, comfort, and status.
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SalmonGod

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Re: Assessing Our Outlooks
« Reply #181 on: February 12, 2011, 04:51:10 pm »

Beliefs change, but motives usually stay the same. People want power, comfort, and status.

That's actually the opposite of what I want.  I want personal freedom, challenges, and to be mostly left alone.  I hate exerting control over others or large amounts of attention.
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In the land of twilight, under the moon
We dance for the idiots
As the end will come so soon
In the land of twilight

Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.

Realmfighter

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Re: Assessing Our Outlooks
« Reply #182 on: February 12, 2011, 04:56:21 pm »

Beliefs change, but motives usually stay the same. People want power, comfort, and status.

I think this would be better said as People want Pleasure.

People may have different Definitions of Pleasure, but Pleasure is what everyone is focused on.
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We may not be as brave as Gryffindor, as willing to get our hands dirty as Hufflepuff, or as devious as Slytherin, but there is nothing, nothing more dangerous than a little too much knowledge and a conscience that is open to debate

ein

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Re: Assessing Our Outlooks
« Reply #183 on: February 12, 2011, 04:58:03 pm »

Hedonism!

Realmfighter

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Re: Assessing Our Outlooks
« Reply #184 on: February 12, 2011, 04:59:20 pm »

The best Philosophy.
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We may not be as brave as Gryffindor, as willing to get our hands dirty as Hufflepuff, or as devious as Slytherin, but there is nothing, nothing more dangerous than a little too much knowledge and a conscience that is open to debate

Darvi

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Re: Assessing Our Outlooks
« Reply #185 on: February 12, 2011, 05:00:55 pm »

The best Philosophy.
Bluh, I'm kinda lurking that class. Something something about happiness being the ultimate goal.
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SalmonGod

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Re: Assessing Our Outlooks
« Reply #186 on: February 12, 2011, 06:07:03 pm »

It took me a very long time to fully appreciate this, but happiness is overrated.  Long-term, unchallenged and unchanging happiness becomes merely contentedness and white noise.  It's unsatisfying.  True happiness requires contrast, balance, and change across a wide spectrum of experiences and emotions. 

The happiest people I know are those who have succeeded in overcoming the greatest hardships to create the lives that they wanted, and only if those lives don't involve stagnation in getting "too comfortable" or stuck in too much routine.

There is plenty of testimony from pleasure seekers that there is never ever enough, and the longer you keep overloading yourself with whatever pleasures you can find, the bigger the void grows.  It eventually consumes people if they can't find meaningful and challenging goals to divert themselves towards.

I think this is the biggest problem with consumer culture, or even worse the "emo" thing that everyone likes to make fun of.  You hear about how these kids are always priveleged upper-middle class youth who whine when they have absolutely nothing to whine about.  Everybody just off-handedly puts that whole movement down as immature, spoiled, etc, which is true in a sense.  I think they're just bored, unsatisfied, and desperate because they're handed all this creature comfort and easy life for free and have nothing to balance against it other than the drama they that they have to intentionally create for themselves.  It's extremely unpopular to say this, but I actually do feel sorry for them.

I really envy the life my dad and uncle had as kids.  His family was poor but not too poor.  They lived in a small house on the bank of the Mississippi River in Wisconsin.  They were about the same age and grew up as friendly rivals in everything.  They fought and got hurt all the time.  They endured harsh winters.  There wasn't as much paranoia about raising children back in their day, especially in rural areas, so they had tons of freedom.  When they didn't have to help work in the fields or go to school, they would get a couple canoes stocked with supplies together with some friends and just disappear for a week.  They went on adventures.  They weathered a tornado while camping in tents.  They survived a cold weather front where they got so desparate to get warm and dry that they broke into someone's back porch and smashed wood out from the floor to burn and stayed the night, because the owners were apparently away.  They were miserable and scared for a little while, but now when they get together they sing songs about the experience.  Now they're both well established upper-middle class, stuck to a routine, and "comfortable" with all the consumer pleasures they care to have.... and they say they didn't know how good they had it.

The fondest memories I have of my past aren't the times I was "happy" in the normal sense, but things like coming home sore as hell from sports practices, digits going numb while playing in the snow, accomplishing things that took tons of effort, or discovering new things that changed the way I looked at the world.

I admit, I'm way different from the majority of people... but I think hedonism is very misguided.  I think it's a philosophy that was adopted by a few and has been forced on the rest over time through consumerism constantly implying to us every time we open our eyes or ears that if we just have X we'll be happy.
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In the land of twilight, under the moon
We dance for the idiots
As the end will come so soon
In the land of twilight

Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.

Realmfighter

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Re: Assessing Our Outlooks
« Reply #187 on: February 12, 2011, 06:16:02 pm »

So, you find pleasure in contrast.

Hedonism isn't mindlessly buying things or having mindless sex.

It is saying that pleasure is good, the only good, but it does say what pleasure is.
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We may not be as brave as Gryffindor, as willing to get our hands dirty as Hufflepuff, or as devious as Slytherin, but there is nothing, nothing more dangerous than a little too much knowledge and a conscience that is open to debate

SalmonGod

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Re: Assessing Our Outlooks
« Reply #188 on: February 12, 2011, 06:42:59 pm »

I understand what you're saying, but it's something a shade different from pleasure.  Life experiences must vary to give meaning to each other.  Including some pleasure to contrast with the non-pleasure doesn't make everything pleasurable.  It makes it memorable.  I think the entire point of life is nothing other than the raw experience of living it, but it's really easy to fall into lifestyles that have us sleeping through it all.  Our biology begs us to seek least resistance and chemically rewards us when we play along, but this is just one of many ways that we can be our own enemy.

Ask someone whose entire experience of life has been constant maximization of the pleasure centers of the brain to draw a picture of their life, and I bet you'd get a blank sheet of paper.
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In the land of twilight, under the moon
We dance for the idiots
As the end will come so soon
In the land of twilight

Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.

ein

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Re: Assessing Our Outlooks
« Reply #189 on: February 12, 2011, 06:55:48 pm »

Epicurus taught that sometimes pain must be endured so the pleasure that comes after becomes greater, increasing its value.

Leafsnail

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Re: Assessing Our Outlooks
« Reply #190 on: February 12, 2011, 06:58:09 pm »

I'd strongly disagree with this one.  People can change... otherwise how do you explain reformed criminals, or people who get their lives back on the rails after troubled times?
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ein

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Re: Assessing Our Outlooks
« Reply #191 on: February 12, 2011, 06:59:00 pm »

I'd strongly disagree with this one.  People can change... otherwise how do you explain reformed criminals, or people who get their lives back on the rails after troubled times?

Magnets.

MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Assessing Our Outlooks
« Reply #192 on: February 12, 2011, 07:00:20 pm »

I'd strongly disagree with this one.  People can change... otherwise how do you explain reformed criminals, or people who get their lives back on the rails after troubled times?
Some (not me) would argue that there is no such thing as a reformed criminal, just one that has yet to fall back into crime. Others (no, still not me) might say that once you've fallen off the rails, there's no getting back.
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
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CoughDrop

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Re: Assessing Our Outlooks
« Reply #193 on: February 12, 2011, 07:00:28 pm »

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Leafsnail

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Re: Assessing Our Outlooks
« Reply #194 on: February 12, 2011, 07:04:06 pm »

Hmm... you've got me there.  But on a technicality, the question doesn't say "Only magnets can change the nature of a man", so my answer remains correct.

Some (not me) would argue that there is no such thing as a reformed criminal, just one that has yet to fall back into crime. Others (no, still not me) might say that once you've fallen off the rails, there's no getting back.
Both some and others would be wrong.  Because it's pretty easy to find counterexamples.
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