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[Tellemurius]

hell with the ivy chips, the igp is twice as powerful as the sandy chips.

[Thexor]

True, having a good case is important for overclocking. But, if you're asking first-timer build advice on the B12 forums, overclocking probably isn't your highest priority. 

I'll back up my previous, uncitated criticism of ATI compatibility with this post from the MNC Steam forums - note the OP's comments about which driver versions work for which other games. Sure, it's only one anecdotal post, but frankly I'm exhausted and don't feel like finding more. But yeah, there's really no reason for drivers to crash like that - from a technical standpoint, a driver is implementing a standardized API, and breaking existing components of a library is Big No-No #1 in development. A 'newer version' that breaks compatibility on anything should be a 'return to drawing-board' moment.

[lordnincompoop]

Again, I've seen hundreds of posts ranting about NVIDIA drivers doing the same thing. It's not like they're problem free, either.

Also, I disagree on the last bit. A compat break will sometimes be necessary. What if motherboard stikll had to support slot-loading CPUs?

[Jehdin]

My PC is a bit behind the curve and im quite liking the look of the up coming DX3 and the year old Metro 2033.

My current rig is
E4500 2.2 core 2 duo processor
2 gig DDR2 (maybe ddr3) ram
8400gs Nividia card
cant remember the motherboard, but given its with a core to duo it wont be a monster.

So the question is, how long can i cost effectivly facelift this PC.

i see three options

1. Spend upto £200 ($350) on a new graphics card, and add a 4gb stick of ram, with the expectation of about 3-5 more years of being able to run top flight games but not necessarily at max settings. Possibly buy a better core 2 duo (is upgrading a core 2 duo ever worth it?). If so which card should i get, i dont want to upgrade my power unit and cooling system.

2. by a geforce 9800 or some card for about £50, and then maybe 2gb ram just to play the two games mentioned (if the processor the other upgrades will cut it) and maybe a few other releases in this year.

3 buy new PC

Theres no point in spending loads on an upgrade if the motherboard and processor are never going to cut it, is the basic hinge point.

can anyone advise?

You're far better off going with a new build. I would look into Intel's new line of processors, perhaps the i7 2500 or the K version if you wish to overclock, which is damn easy.

AMD's current processors can't keep up with anything beyond Intel's Core 2 line, they have a new line due out in Q2 that will hopefully rectify that but if you need to buy before then, go Intel.

Personally, I'm waiting for Q2 to decide what to get as I'm also upgrading this year.

*snip*

You are so terribly misinformed.

First of all, and I'm being pedantic here, the ATI brand is dead, it's AMD now.

Secondly, both Nvidia and AMD have driver issues, Nvidia once released drivers that killed cards, for example.
I see a lot of people complain about AMD drivers beyond 10.8 or 10.10 but I'm currently using 11.1a with no problems.
Personally, I've used cards from both companies over the years and I've never had issues with either company's drivers. Although I haven't had an Nvidia card since 2 6800GTs crapped out on me in... 2006, I think.

Next, AMD vs Nvidia is nothing like Intel vs AMD, why? Because AMD is actually competitive with Nvidia. AMD's current line of cards are about as fast or faster than Nvidia's line in similar price categories and the AMD cards use less power. In comparison, AMD's processors use more power and are, in many cases, much slower than almost any Intel processor since the i7 was introduced.

Finally, cases can make a huge difference, especially if you're going with an mATX or mITX build. Some cases have horrible airflow, some have excessive airflow and make too much noise, some aren't long enough to fit high-end video cards, some won't take long PSUs. Even at stock, and especially with a decent video card, a case with bad airflow can lead to overheating issues.

Buy a new barebones.  Transfer existing (good) parts.

Enjoy blissful transfer of files, OS, settings, and drivers.*

Also cheaper.  I spent $580 and got a computer worth about $850.  Why?  Kept my 2 hard drives ($80/per), kept my CPU fan ($50), DVD drive ($20), sound card ($?), and wireless adapter ($30).

I got mine here:
www.portatech.com

*If you get a new video card, you'll install a new driver, of course, but a lot of your basic drivers will still be there as well as drivers for hardware you kept.

This just seems like a bad idea, you can get a better PC for the money, not to mention pick out better quality parts, by just building it yourself. It's not even that hard.

What OS are you on? As much as it pains me to say it, XP is on its last legs as far as gaming goes. If you're not on Windows 7 yet, you need to be for the next year+ of modern gaming.

Yes, anyone still on XP is way behind the times and missing out. I switched to Vista as soon as the beta went public and I haven't looked back since. I'm on 7 these days.

Intel is upgrading to 2011-pin sockets soon.  If you're looking for something high-end, I would seriously recommend waiting for them to hit, as the 1156 and 1366 sockets are essentially being discontinued.

Socket 2011 isn't coming until Q3 or Q4. Socket 1155's CPUs are already a fair bit faster than the older ones.

[kulik]

Im planing to buy a new pc as well. I've heard that for gaming is i5 3.3 GHz still better than i7 with 2.6GHz cause most of the games can't use multithreading efectively if at all.

[Jehdin]

Im planing to buy a new pc as well. I've heard that for gaming is i5 3.3 GHz still better than i7 with 2.6GHz cause most of the games can't use multithreading efectively if at all.

If you mean dual-core vs. quad-core (There are both dual and quad i5s, by the way), then I would go quad every time. Many newer games will take advantage of the extra cores and that number will only increase.

I have an old Core 2 Quad clocked at 3.4Ghz, no game aside from Star Ruler (a heavily multi-threaded game) has made me feel like it was inadequate.

[Draco18s]

Buy a new barebones.  Transfer existing (good) parts.

Enjoy blissful transfer of files, OS, settings, and drivers.*

Also cheaper.  I spent $580 and got a computer worth about $850.  Why?  Kept my 2 hard drives ($80/per), kept my CPU fan ($50), DVD drive ($20), sound card ($?), and wireless adapter ($30).

I got mine here:
www.portatech.com

*If you get a new video card, you'll install a new driver, of course, but a lot of your basic drivers will still be there as well as drivers for hardware you kept.

This just seems like a bad idea, you can get a better PC for the money, not to mention pick out better quality parts, by just building it yourself. It's not even that hard.

Not by a whole lot.
I bought:
Barebones with AMD CPU
  w/ Phenom II X6 1090T (6 x 3.2GHz - 9MB Cache - 4000 FSB)
  Asus M4N68T-M
  CPU Fan Only
  2GB DDR3-1333
PC3-10600
(Single Module)
  Standard Mid-Tower (Black)
  650 Watt Power Supply
  ATI Radeon HD5570 1GB
  Standard - Build, Burn-in, Test & Ship Out in Approx 3 to 5 Business Days
  2 Year Direct Replacement Warranty (With Free - Lifetime Tech Support)

Total: $526 (I was too high when I said $580)

RAM has apparently dropped in price by half in the last 40 days.  Same build this morning costs $470.

For the work it saved me trying to buy individual pieces and compare prices, I'm quite happy.  Plus some extended warranty is nice.  You don't get that with DIY ($20 for 2 years).

[lordnincompoop]

First of all, and I'm being pedantic here, the ATI brand is dead, it's AMD now.

It's a name change/merger. It's not the end of the world as we know it, or an awful awful mistake that people should be executed for.

Secondly, both Nvidia and AMD have driver issues, Nvidia once released drivers that killed cards, for example.
I see a lot of people complain about AMD drivers beyond 10.8 or 10.10 but I'm currently using 11.1a with no problems.
Personally, I've used cards from both companies over the years and I've never had issues with either company's drivers. Although I haven't had an Nvidia card since 2 6800GTs crapped out on me in... 2006, I think.

Next, AMD vs Nvidia is nothing like Intel vs AMD, why? Because AMD is actually competitive with Nvidia. AMD's current line of cards are about as fast or faster than Nvidia's line in similar price categories and the AMD cards use less power. In comparison, AMD's processors use more power and are, in many cases, much slower than almost any Intel processor since the i7 was introduced.

Exactly. There's no major imbalance in the GPU field as of now, as far as I can see. Now that I look back on it, my ATI and NVIDIA card were both equally shitty then too.

[Jehdin]

First of all, and I'm being pedantic here, the ATI brand is dead, it's AMD now.

It's a name change/merger. It's not the end of the world as we know it, or an awful awful mistake that people should be executed for.

Hence "being pedantic".

[lordnincompoop]

First of all, and I'm being pedantic here, the ATI brand is dead, it's AMD now.

It's a name change/merger. It's not the end of the world as we know it, or an awful awful mistake that people should be executed for.

Hence "being pedantic".

Indeed. I felt the need to call you out on it anyways though. :I

[de5me7]

thanls for all the replies

100% agreement on new build. I may havbe to wait a couple of months to save the funds, but £600-700 is on the cards.

I must admit im abit wary of ATI for combatability issues. Ive never had problems with Nvidia, but have had issues with ATI cards (most notably with SOTOR2 but some other games too). But ATIs 6****s are so much cheaper than the Nvidia alternatives.

I have built PCs in the past, but the last one i built was in about 2003. Since then ive cruised on handme downs from others. The only thing id be concerned about is adding the right amount of coolant gel to the cpu (do people still do this?). Ive never set up a processor to overclock before, i assume it just involves adding a good fan, (extra power?), and raising the clock speed in bios.

I wouldnt be able to canablise drives and ram from the current pc, as it is on long term loan. The owner doesnt expect it back anytime soon, but he may one day require it, so i cant strip it. Which means id need fresh ram and drives. I do have 2 IDE cable dvd, and about 400gb of hard disk also IDE, but i doubt this can be rigged to modern boards easily. I can salvage a wireless card and periferals (but want a new monitor as currently using a 15").

Undecieded on the AMD vs Intel arguement. What i generally here is that AMD cheaper but Intel better in this day and age. On my budget i could probs stretch to a decent I5, but possibly resticitng the payout on GPU to £150ish.

[Draco18s]

Undecieded on the AMD vs Intel arguement. What i generally here is that AMD cheaper but Intel better in this day and age. On my budget i could probs stretch to a decent I5, but possibly resticitng the payout on GPU to £150ish.

Be sure to compare on PassMark.  AFAIK they do the best job of giving CPUs a single "speed" number that is comparable across all chips.
Then check price.  Do you really want to pay 30% more for 7% more speed?
That's how I ended up with my AMD Phenom II over an Intel i5/i6/i7.

[MasterFancyPants]

I'm also planing to get a new PC and don't get the AMD vs. Intel thing. It looks like AMDs are better for the price, but I always hear they are really unenergy-efficient and run to hot.
AMD:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

http://www.portatech.com/catalog/viewitem.asp?ID=25352&O=26191

Intel:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

http://www.portatech.com/catalog/viewitem.asp?ID=38652&O=38648

On those the Intel looks less powerful, but is an extra $200. Is it really worth it for an Intel chip?

[Tellemurius]

they are really just different, intel is for performance while AMD is for the everyday usage.

[Draco18s]

On those the Intel looks less powerful, but is an extra $200. Is it really worth it for an Intel chip?

PassMark Software has delved into the thousands of benchmark results that PerformanceTest users have posted to its web site and produced five Intel vs AMD CPU charts to help compare the relative speeds of the different processors.

If Passmark (i.e. those bars on PortaTech) says the AMD is faster, then its faster.  AND its $200 cheaper.
Buy a sweet fan to keep it cool.