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[lemon10]

You didn't update my map at all.
Sorry for the money mistakes.

You say that like you don't want me outbidding them. The heavy chest of gold is mightier then the sword.

Honestly, I'm not quite sure that you are willing to outbid them. Earlier they payed me 40+ money to protect them for 10+ turns, and I imagine that if you fought them again, I could raise even more money from them (100 money+gems+military assistance later wouldn't be out of the question), and while you could pay a ton of money/other goods, in the long run the favor of the dark elves and the long term money I make off them is worth more. Infact, I would be willing to pay you to attack them if I was sure they wouldn't find out about my offer (which I'm not sure of, so I won't).
Nirur, I am changing out trade agreement, from 1 earth jade per turn+1 sky diamond/life flower to 1 sky diamond/life flower per turn, being able to get earth jade from the dark elves, and seeing no reason to get it from you instead of them.

Nirur/Irony, I am willing to pay 15 gold (or anything else about equivalent) for a navigator, any takers?

EDIT:
Vanigo, How much stone are the dwarfs willing to sell me per turn?
Vanigo, would the horseman tribe be willing to sell me the secrets of horseback riding?
EDITEDIT:
Vangigo, I messed up in my resource summary last turn, I produced a ballista that I didn't put in my resource total.

[Vanigo]

EDIT:
Vanigo, How much stone are the dwarfs willing to sell me per turn?
Vanigo, would the horseman tribe be willing to sell me the secrets of horseback riding?

The dwarves, like I said, have more of the stuff than they know what to do with. There is, in practical terms, no particular limit.
You can't trade for a tech that is locked for your civ and age. You could probably trade them something for it next age, though.

[IronyOwl]

I believe Vanigo said you couldn't trade specialists.

On the subject of trading, though, I'd be interested in those dire boars.

[Vanigo]

On the subject of trading, though, I'd be interested in those dire boars.

It'd have to wait for him to grab beast taming; he can't hold them without it.

[lemon10]

I believe Vanigo said you couldn't trade specialists.

ANGER!

EDIT:
Vanigo, would the horseman tribe be willing to sell me the secrets of horseback riding?

You can't trade for a tech that is locked for your civ and age. You could probably trade them something for it next age, though.

ANGER!

On the subject of trading, though, I'd be interested in those dire boars.

It'd have to wait for him to grab beast taming; he can't hold them without it.

No, it wouldn't, it would only require me to let him use my road and go past my colonies.

Vangigo, I messed up in my resource summary last turn, I produced a ballista that I didn't put in my resource total.
Vangigo, and I consumed 1 less iron ingot then I thought.
EDIT:
Also, you didn't do my map exploration, just my cartography.
EDITEDIT:
Also, I am selling stone for 3 money, if anyone needs any (doubtful at this stage in the age however), then just ask.
EDITEDITEDIT:
Does a balista count as a two handed weapon?

[IronyOwl]

No, it wouldn't, it would only require me to let him use my road and go past my colonies.

So, can I assume you're telling me about the offer to investigate it?

Vanigo, could I just ask them about it now or will that take another full turn?

Does a balista count as a two handed weapon?

This is a valid question, but the mental imagery made me laugh.

[Nirur Torir]

Nirur, I am changing out trade agreement, from 1 earth jade per turn+1 sky diamond/life flower to 1 sky diamond/life flower per turn.

Very well.

[IronyOwl]

Huh. Here's an odd question: Would life flowers be good for combinations using Enfeebling? It's descended from Life Magic, but the concept's obviously a little different.

Also, kind of drawing a blank on what non-accessory uses I could have for them without needing Infusion.

EDIT: Two more questions:

1. Can you make more powerful custom items using more advanced techs, even if the general theory is the same? If I figured out a use for Magecraft in something, for instance, could Sorcery produce a better version?

2. Does the attack penalty from exhaustion orbs apply to ranged and/or magic attacks?

[Nirur Torir]

You say that like you don't want me outbidding them. The heavy chest of gold is mightier then the sword.

Honestly, I'm not quite sure that you are willing to outbid them. Earlier they payed me 40+ money to protect them for 10+ turns, and I imagine that if you fought them again, I could raise even more money from them (100 money+gems+military assistance later wouldn't be out of the question), and while you could pay a ton of money/other goods, in the long run the favor of the dark elves and the long term money I make off them is worth more. Infact, I would be willing to pay you to attack them if I was sure they wouldn't find out about my offer (which I'm not sure of, so I won't).

Hypothetical situation, then: Let's say I have 100 money, 5 gems, and a caravel hull ...

Also, kind of drawing a blank on what non-accessory uses I could have for them without needing Infusion.

Armor of Life?

Vanigo: How much do guildhalls make per worker? it was originally 6, but I think you changed it to 8 and then reverted it to 6.

[IronyOwl]

Hypothetical situation, then: Let's say I have 100 money, 5 gems, and a caravel hull ...

Now feels like a not-directly-relatedly good time to mention I'll be buying earth jade off them.

Also, kind of drawing a blank on what non-accessory uses I could have for them without needing Infusion.

Armor of Life?

Yeah, definitely thinking about some sort of life armor coating, but was forced to wonder if that wouldn't require infusion instead. Also went off on a tangent about imbuing the actual materials with life, resulting in living wood armor or somesuch, but had no idea what that would even do.

Have also considered some sort of apothecary specialist, but ideally I'll be getting improved healing techs in the next age, which might provide that anyway. Hrm.

Vanigo: How much do guildhalls make per worker? it was originally 6, but I think you changed it to 8 and then reverted it to 6.

What I remember is it starting at 4 then being boosted to 6.

[Nirur Torir]

Hypothetical situation, then: Let's say I have 100 money, 5 gems, and a caravel hull ...

Now feels like a not-directly-relatedly good time to mention I'll be buying earth jade off them.

In the unlikely event of the hypothetical situation requiring the immediate removal of dark elves from their position of power on the world stage, would you be willing to send half your military power to help in exchange for five gems and an exploration caravel? Bear in mind also that me getting two earth jade per turn would devalue their worth to me, causing me to sell them more cheaply. (I don't think I need more then one every other turn.)

[Vanigo]

No, it wouldn't, it would only require me to let him use my road and go past my colonies.

So, can I assume you're telling me about the offer to investigate it?

Vanigo, could I just ask them about it now or will that take another full turn?

They'd be

Does a balista count as a two handed weapon?

It's zero-handed, actually. But you can't have two primary weapons, so there's not all that much you can do with your free hands.

Huh. Here's an odd question: Would life flowers be good for combinations using Enfeebling? It's descended from Life Magic, but the concept's obviously a little different.

Indeed they would.

1. Can you make more powerful custom items using more advanced techs, even if the general theory is the same? If I figured out a use for Magecraft in something, for instance, could Sorcery produce a better version?

2. Does the attack penalty from exhaustion orbs apply to ranged and/or magic attacks?

Yes, yes, and to ranged, but not magic.

And the guildhall is six per labor, uncapped.

[lemon10]

Does a balista count as a two handed weapon?

It's zero-handed, actually. But you can't have two primary weapons, so there's not all that much you can do with your free hands.

I asked the question because I was wondering if my dudes could use a shield with them instead of a buckler, and it sounds like they can.

Vanigo, could I just ask them about it now or will that take another full turn?

They'd be

Yeah, definitely thinking about some sort of life armor coating, but was forced to wonder if that wouldn't require infusion instead. Also went off on a tangent about imbuing the actual materials with life, resulting in living wood armor or somesuch, but had no idea what that would even do.

Maybe have it block targeted magic special effects (by absorbing them or something similar)?

Hypothetical situation, then: Let's say I have 100 money, 5 gems, and a caravel hull ...

Then you would probably be able to about match them, however they provide a hypothetical ally that could be very useful.

Nirur, what do you say to a mock-battle, having our 4 strongest units have a fight (not to the death) somewhere on the middle river (no naval units however), with the winner getting 20 gold?

[Nirur Torir]

Nirur, what do you say to a mock-battle, having our 4 strongest units have a fight (not to the death) somewhere on the middle river (no naval units however), with the winner getting 20 gold?

Hmm. That looks like a fairly even battle, but I can't afford to risk any money, and dislike the idea of damaging my strongest troops.

I'm curious about how powerful First Strike is. How about a one-on-one fight between Pikegnomes and Elemental Vanguards? I'll bet an earth jade against a sun amber. The 'battle' can take place in the neutral town with the sky diamonds. Spectators should boost their economy a bit, so they should accept it.

[IronyOwl]

In the unlikely event of the hypothetical situation requiring the immediate removal of dark elves from their position of power on the world stage, would you be willing to send half your military power to help in exchange for five gems and an exploration caravel? Bear in mind also that me getting two earth jade per turn would devalue their worth to me, causing me to sell them more cheaply. (I don't think I need more then one every other turn.)

Not too sure. Helping to wipe out a previously benign trading partner seems a bit... questionable, as does the gnomes having more slaves than the Ashara. On the other hand, it's probably inevitable unless I directly oppose you.


Also, now I'm getting all sorts of ideas.

Enfeebling + Ember Rubies = Exhaustion orbs for magic (now with an ominous dull red glow!)

Enfeebling + Life Flowers = Exhaustion effect coating for arrows

Actually, I guess I was always getting all sorts of ideas, but I don't think I can/should get twenty custom items involving Body Enhancement, and it's hard to settle on what I actually want. >_>