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Author Topic: At the Dawn of Time discussion thread (Need a replacement player!)  (Read 57760 times)

lemon10

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Re: [AOR-like] At the Dawn of Time discussion thread (Game start!)
« Reply #150 on: February 20, 2011, 05:48:44 am »

BLARGL, my post just got eaten by the internet. Time to type it up again.

What is the old power structure, anyway? Not too clear on that, and many types of power structure react poorly to bumping off the old head and trying to replace it.

The situation you describe... is foreign to human psychology. People instinctively want to move to the top of the social pecking order. Not everyone wants it all that badly, and not everyone who does decides that it means going for political power, but enough do that any government this weak would be toppled in short order. I mean, "Hey, guys, we totally rule this city now." "Yeah, sure, whatever." "Oh, and we're passing these laws. Go along with it." "Sure, why not?"? Their main power base is a weak and largely discredited military, and they have practically no legitimacy - if these were real people, someone would make a power grab within six months.
I can't think of any factions both strong enough to kick out the military, and that care enough to do it. While the populous/farmers/builders/woodcutters certainly have enough people to do it, they wouldn't have the inclination. Their isn't any religious faction that would try to sieze control, since they are basically hippies for the most part, and don't really have any priests/high priests. Their aren't any super rich people either. While i suppose the elders (as a group, not just the people who were in the council) could do it, most of them don't have the inclination (since they were never eligible for the council due to being too young).
While upward mobility is nice, for almost all of recorded human history, the only way that it was remotely possible to rise up within the world was in the military, and even that was extremely hard. While people like upward mobility its a relitively new concept. And if anything, its more possible to rise upward with a millitary control since in the old council, since with the council of 12, you could never really join the council if you weren't old enough to begin with, while with the military, you could join it with the intent of rising in the ranks and getting up to a position that you could command a new unit in the military when it forms.
They are still the military though, if you try to kick them out of power they *will* kill you.
But then, that's the rub - they aren't exactly human. They're close, regeneration aside, but who knows what kinds of psychological differences there are? I've been assuming they think pretty much like humans do, but is that not the case?
Pretty much like humans BUT, they are all for the "greater good". They imprisoned Feta and the Council because they think that they did a terrible job, and because they think that Feta betrayed them (yes, insane i know, but its what they think).
They don't really have a concept of money and only a small concept of ownership. Basically the council said what labor needed to be done, and people did it. Basically, its communism, but it works for them because they have a much stronger pack mentality then humans. If you work then you get food and a place to live. If you don't work, then you don't really get to live in the community. You get no food, and you become a social outcast, something that can easily be fixed by starting to work again. Obviously people who are unable to work for some reason and children are exempt.
Basically, people work in groups ranging from 80 to 120 strong, each one has a leader who picks what his group does for the season. The leader does all the relevant work making sure they get access to food, and that they are all there working. If someone is in a group that generally farms, and they would like to be a builder, then they just change groups.
As long as the Hinor believe that the military is actually acting in their best interests (and the military is trying to act in their best interests), then they will do what they tell them largely, because they think that they are doing what is best. While they might not believe what the military said about feta being a traitor, they still don't really care who is in charge, since they also have their best interests at heart.
Their are obvious exceptions to this, outliers as their are within any society and any species, but they are the vast minority.
For the most part, people don't own land or resources, they belong to the community (although its not like you will ever be kicked out of your house if you are working).
(Minor change, the military council will be comprised of 5+2L highest ranking members within each unit, so a level 1 unit will have 5 members, while a level 5 would have 11, it will also be named the senate).
EDIT: Guess they aren't actually ideal communists, since they still have a government, but they fall pretty close, mainly since their profit motive is much smaller, and they care more about others.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2011, 06:27:52 am by lemon10 »
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And with a mighty leap, the evil Conservative flies through the window, escaping our heroes once again!
Because the solution to not being able to control your dakka is MOAR DAKKA.

That's it. We've finally crossed over and become the nation of Da Orky Boyz.

Vanigo

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Re: [AOR-like] At the Dawn of Time discussion thread (Game start!)
« Reply #151 on: February 20, 2011, 01:36:38 pm »

I can't think of any factions both strong enough to kick out the military, and that care enough to do it. While the populous/farmers/builders/woodcutters certainly have enough people to do it, they wouldn't have the inclination. Their isn't any religious faction that would try to sieze control, since they are basically hippies for the most part, and don't really have any priests/high priests. Their aren't any super rich people either. While i suppose the elders (as a group, not just the people who were in the council) could do it, most of them don't have the inclination (since they were never eligible for the council due to being too young).
Factions have a tendency to spring out of nowhere. Whenever there's a charismatic leader with a halfway decent cause, he'll be able to attract followers.
Quote
While upward mobility is nice, for almost all of recorded human history, the only way that it was remotely possible to rise up within the world was in the military, and even that was extremely hard. While people like upward mobility its a relitively new concept. And if anything, its more possible to rise upward with a millitary control since in the old council, since with the council of 12, you could never really join the council if you weren't old enough to begin with, while with the military, you could join it with the intent of rising in the ranks and getting up to a position that you could command a new unit in the military when it forms.
That's not true at all. It's true that upward mobility has been... limited for most of recorded history, but that's not because it's a new concept; it's because the people at the top have, to one degree or another, been actively stamping it out. Stone age tribes are all about upward mobility. Also, rebellions are often about upward mobility, and there have been tons of them; most of them just didn't go too well. A rebellion here would.

Quote
Pretty much like humans BUT, they are all for the "greater good". They imprisoned Feta and the Council because they think that they did a terrible job, and because they think that Feta betrayed them (yes, insane i know, but its what they think)....
Yeah, that could do it. Will they be able to sell the general populace on Feta being a traitor, though, when anyone with half a brain and less than three dead friends can see he's just a scapegoat?
« Last Edit: February 20, 2011, 01:39:45 pm by Vanigo »
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Ahra

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Re: [AOR-like] At the Dawn of Time discussion thread (Game start!)
« Reply #152 on: February 20, 2011, 02:16:42 pm »

Beacause of the abundance of food the kasrs got from the ground the very ground of the first farms is considered blessed by the lords beacause of the plentiful rains that gave the fields their lavish gifts of food dwarfing anything the kasrs had ever known but as old habits die hard the kasrs continued  to kill the beasts of the forest.

with the great change to society the council arose the head farmer, the woodsmen, the artisans and the warriors all had to accept changes to do them.
as the times continued the kasrs got shaped by their work the woodsmen became as swift as the hyenas, the farmers became wide over their shoulders and strong as oxes
the artisans shrunk becoming agile and fit for their delicate work and the warriors that retained their kasr bodies.

The end of the first age, also known as the golden kasirian age was marked when the very sea itself turned against the kasrs and it was a sight to behold as it wihout destoying almost nothing swept away almost a third of the kasirian population and drowning their animals.
But they was not to be demorialised so easily as the temple itself had not been touched, only the village had been flooded.
it took them many harvests (a kasrian measurment of time) to regain their animals and technology but they still lack the numbers they had before the great sea devoured so many of them but when the kasrs was suddenly struck by the thought.
The skylords were not alone there were lords of the earth and water and fire as well as the ones of the air, the high priest is said to have kneeled before the core and asked why the sealords had done this they had answered:
-you honour all but us, was all they said.
shocked over the simple reason the council immediatly proclaimed the classes to become castes dedicated to one lord each they were the
the farmers-earth caste
the woodsmen-air caste
the artisans-water caste
the warriors-fire caste
and now they still hold the sky as the highest but all are revered for their power, and their fickle nature.

ok more bullshit, if this doesent work i dont know what to writhe.
 
« Last Edit: February 20, 2011, 02:52:23 pm by Ahra »
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And then the horror hits: This was just spring.
We are SOooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo fucked.
Quite fucked indeed.

Vanigo

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Re: [AOR-like] At the Dawn of Time discussion thread (Game start!)
« Reply #153 on: February 20, 2011, 03:51:00 pm »

Okay, everyone's got something workable in, so here's what I'm thinking for age 2. Take a look, and if you see anything that looks off, go ahead and speak up.

Spoiler: New techs (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: New buildings (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: New resource refining (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: New improvements (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Ljus Faller (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Ochitans (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Ser'kash (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Sidamaru (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Sunstone (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Xeniice (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: February 21, 2011, 09:52:04 pm by Vanigo »
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Ahra

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i..i cant belive it its just like i wanted it.
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And then the horror hits: This was just spring.
We are SOooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo fucked.
Quite fucked indeed.

Vanigo

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Oh, and before someone asks: Road construction. Two labor to build a road segment on the world map (three on forest or hills, four on mountains), and you need to leave a unit there for protection from wild animals and barbarians. Roads let you extend your supply chain, and colonies have to be linked to the capital by roads, rivers, or (if you have sailing) coastlines to send resources back.

Edit: And I forgot about the free age 2 tech. That's in, now.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2011, 04:07:23 pm by Vanigo »
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Ahra

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Re: [AOR-like] At the Dawn of Time discussion thread (Game start!)
« Reply #156 on: February 20, 2011, 04:17:36 pm »

[quote author=Vanigo link=topic=76807.msg2002071#msg2002071 date=129823


Air Caste: Optional unit ability replaces predatory bonuses with +1 speed (when on foot)
New leader: Governor
Free tech: Formalized Religion

Mining
The Plow
Trade
Literacy
Horseback Riding
Formalized Religion
Priesthood
Shamanism
Elementalism
Caste Specialties

are these the things i may research to/have?

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And then the horror hits: This was just spring.
We are SOooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo fucked.
Quite fucked indeed.

Vanigo

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Yeah, those are the unlocked technologies. Not sure what else they would be.
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Ahra

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i simply did not want to mess it up.
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And then the horror hits: This was just spring.
We are SOooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo fucked.
Quite fucked indeed.

Ochita

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THats... Alot of research to be done :D
Also I am the people who will gladly trade techs.
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Vanigo

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Wait, I can't give the Ser'kash Formalized Religion; they don't have either of the prerequisites. In fact, I can't give them much that makes sense... Guess I'll have to give them two age 1 techs instead.
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IronyOwl

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Why didn't me or Happerry get a new trait?
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Nirur Torir

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It mostly looks great, except for the lack of Currency. As my race values wealth, it feels like they should have it. Conversely, it feels like the various families of Xeniice would have major trouble agreeing on exactly what they should believe about the spirits. Could I trade Formalized Religion for Currency?

If not, for balance reasons (Lots of food + military bonuses + bonus income could be a bit powerful), then is it at least possible to get certain techs from earlier ages while in later ages, through cultural trickle-through or whatever else? I like the idea of not everyone having access to every technology, and yet ... It would be strange if some people just couldn't grasp currency, or mapmaking. Never having the possibility of a navy due to a lack of sails would give naval factions a large mobility boost against people without specialized magic. Everyone should eventually be able to research metal working, as mage-only armies are stressfully squishy, and being able to make steel without bronze wouldn't make much sense.
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Vanigo

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I couldn't think of a good new trait for you or Happery, IronyOwl. Not much has changed at a societal level for either of you. I guess I could give Happery a better supply range, maybe...

Nirur Torir, that sounds reasonable. For your second question, yes, later ages will absolutely fill in some (eventually all) of the gaps in earlier ages' tech selections.
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Nirur Torir

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Excellent, thanks.

I hope you don't get overwhelmed by the complicated tech trees that are likely to arise, and by coming up with sufficient fun new techs.
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