Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[JohnieRWilkins]

Lol, great troll, good read. Sadly, a singularity doesn't violate relativity, (infinite mass, and infinite acceleration aren't properties of a singularity, which is the minimum it would take to travel backwards in time. Infinite mass and infinite acceleration aren't real concepts either.) and two or more singularities in the same vicinity don't stop relativity from applying either. At best, some of the forces will cancel out at points somewhere between the singularities. At all other points, one of the singularities will tug stronger than the other. If these singularities have infinite mass, then you will be torn apart instantaneously.

That must be an interesting experience. No, you won't be torn apart in a fraction of a second. It will occur INSTANTANEOUSLY.

[lemon10]

Na, it won't be instantaneous, and it wouldn't be very interesting, since you would have been unconscious for a long time before that. But it even at a point exactly between two black holes, the gravity differential between your head and your feet would be so strong it would tear you appart.

[Starver]

Na, it won't be instantaneous, and it wouldn't be very interesting, since you would have been unconscious for a long time before that. But it even at a point exactly between two black holes, the gravity differential between your head and your feet would be so strong it would tear you appart.

I had in mind that the black holes would be side-to-side, so my thoughts on reading that info were more that your ears (/legs/arms/every other part of the anatomy that is paired) would be wildly pulled apart in a more lateral manner.

[Eugenitor]

Nah, if you really want to have fun pulling people apart, do it along the front-back axis.

[Scood]

From what i read the event horizon of the black hole they use for time travel is donut shaped and they developed some sort of equation that calculates a safe path through the event horizon into the singularity without being torn apart.... a spinning black hole apparently sheds its event horizon if it spins fast enough. Your'e right it doesn't violate relativity. That does not mean time travel is not possible without breaking relativity.

i might make a forum game based on this guy.

[JohnieRWilkins]

Na, it won't be instantaneous, and it wouldn't be very interesting, since you would have been unconscious for a long time before that. But it even at a point exactly between two black holes, the gravity differential between your head and your feet would be so strong it would tear you appart.

Well, my mistake was that I tried to imagine a scenario where two infinite mass singularities exist in the same system, and that's something that's impossible to imagine because it is impossible in the full sense of the words. Woohoo, reading stupid shit written by idiots makes me retarded.

Here, I'll show you how impossible this scenario is with math. Do you know limits? I think I can prove it with limits and second grade physics. I'll use a formula with constant acceleration, since changing infinite mass makes no sense to me. WTF?

Code: [Select]

Force due to gravity:
---
F= Force
G= Universal constant of gravitation
M= Mass of the singularity
m= mass of you
r= distance between center of your mass and center of singularity mass

[b]F=(GMm)/(r^2)[/b]
---
a= acceleration
F= Force
m= Mass of you.

[b]a=F/m[/b]
---

a=(GMm/(r^2))/m

[b]a=(GM/r^2)[/b]
---

v= velocity
v(naught)= initial velocity
a= acceleration (due to gravity, which is infinite at all points in the system, even infinity distance units away.)

v=v(naught)+at
---

v=v(naught)+((GM)/(r^2))t

t=(v-v(naught))/((GM)/(r^2))

Limit of t
M->∞

................................ IS ZERO
Now that was a pointless exercise. But this "proves" that you are accelerating, towards the singularity, at infinite acceleration at any distance from the singularity. And you will arrive at the singularity instantaneously. If you have two infinite mass singularities in your system, your body will actually accelerate towards both singularities at infinite acceleration, so "you'll" "arrive" at both of them instantaneously. And they'll probably arrive at each other instantaneously too, completely demolishing what I tried to imagine. No, you probably wouldn't be pulled apart instantaneously, you'd just never be in such a preposterous scenario because that's literally impossible, in the full sense of the word. And imagining such a scenario is falling into the troll trap set by the stupid gravity-related time travel trolls.

[JohnieRWilkins]

From what i read the event horizon of the black hole they use for time travel is donut shaped and they developed some sort of equation that calculates a safe path through the event horizon into the singularity without being torn apart.... a spinning black hole apparently sheds its event horizon if it spins fast enough. Your'e right it doesn't violate relativity. That does not mean time travel is not possible without breaking relativity.

i might make a forum game based on this guy.

That is horse shit.

Going into the singularity of a black hole doesn't make you travel in time. It makes you be crushed into a singularity and slowly emitted as hawking radiation over millions, or maybe billions of years.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawking_radiation

Worse yet, gravitational pull is always spherical. If it wasn't spherical, but any other shape, then we'd have gravity-powered perpetual motion machines.

[Max White]

Crushed into a black hole, you say? Well that is rather impressive. I would say the average human would be killed by the force of acceleration alone, so to survive long enough to be crushed would be awesome.

Of corse that thing about 'going through' black holes is rather silly. Is an object with escape velocity greater then the speed of light that hard to understand? You would have better luck trying to go through a soild wall.

[Starver]

I won't dabble with the v_e>c issue, because that gets sticky, but the main point about the most useful model of the manifold of space at a black hole is that it is asymptotically bent into an infinite funnel 'gravity-wise', so that a line drawn directly across the singularity [X, Y and/or Z-wise] (as opposed to just missing it) doesn't hit any thing but just goes down the funnel forever.

Yeah, problems with that as well but, unless you're Hawking, you're probably best off abstracting everything within the Schwarzchild radius anyway.

[JohnieRWilkins]

I won't dabble with the v_e>c issue, because that gets sticky, but the main point about the most useful model of the manifold of space at a black hole is that it is asymptotically bent into an infinite funnel 'gravity-wise', so that a line drawn directly across the singularity [X, Y and/or Z-wise] (as opposed to just missing it) doesn't hit any thing but just goes down the funnel forever.

Yeah, problems with that as well but, unless you're Hawking, you're probably best off abstracting everything within the Schwarzchild radius anyway.

So what you're doing is drawing two-dimensional space and reserving the third dimension for gravity?

[rarborman]

Yeah that wrong is so many ways...

[Scood]

If you move to the singularity instantly, that's defying relativity. that would be going faster than the speed of light. Unless time slows down, that defies relativity. It's possible that an object that crosses the three dimentional point of the singularity will never reach the singularity because of how slow time is.

It's very similar to the example starver gives, and it does a very good job where instead of the third dimention preventing an object from reaching a singularity, it's the fourth, time, that prevents an object from reaching the singularity.

[Max White]

If you move to the singularity instantly, that's defying relativity. that would be going faster than the speed of light. Unless time slows down, that defies relativity. It's possible that an object that crosses the three dimentional point of the singularity will never reach the singularity because of how slow time is.

It's very similar to the example starver gives, and it does a very good job.

Your mixing up your observer with your system. To an observer watching somebody fall into a black hole, they will appear to slow down and freeze in time.

[rarborman]

I prefer a modified holographic theory much more then the notion of all this stuff, where black holes are actually wormholes to the respective edge of the universe that is a "film" of data, where the face holds calculations for space time and the universal forces.

[Starver]

So what you're doing is drawing two-dimensional space and reserving the third dimension for gravity?

Actually, no.  At least not how I think you think I'm doing it, with a traversable "deepness" dimension perpendicular to the two[1] space dimensions.  You can sort of do it by saying it's just 'somewhere to flop' for the distorted area of the space-time cloth on that particular model, but that's a horrible description.

I really need better analogies.  Until then, I should probably not try compounding the problem.

[1] Or three, but it may be easier to visualise and convey as a distorted surface, rather than a distorted volume, so I'll stick with the former.