Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[penco]

As an extension of this thread, I am compiling a sort of Code of Honor for players who want a challenging and less cheesy game. I am considering doing some modding (or having someone implement it into their mod) to make this more than just an honor code, but here it is for now. Suggestions welcome.

----
Some opening comments defending the Code from naysayers:

To reiterate, the goal of this is not to make the game hard or to force people into a rule set. The point is for veteran players to reach a consensus on what sort of gameplay is considered cheesy and should be avoided for balanced gameplay for players wanting to develop their skill.

The point of the Code of Dwarfliness is so that veteran players can have a common ground to talk about their achievements. Take this conversation:

PENCO: Whoa, awesome tower, Urist McForumUser! How'd you long did it take you?

URIST: I had it done by Summer Year 2!

PENCO: Wow, I wish I could build things that fast. I am usually stuck focusing on getting a metal industry running first so I can equip my army. How do you manage to defend yourself?

URIST: Well, I just wall off my fort!

PENCO: derp.


In that conversation, I was hoping I had met a player who could share some tips with me to improve my gameplay, but my hopes were quickly dashed when I realized he didn't play the same way as me. You can't share strategy with someone playing by a different set of rules.

Common rules foster discussion by creating a common playing field.

-----

The Code


1) Thou shalt not close thine fortress.

No sealing yourself off, even during sieges. No win-mode drawbridges that shut off access to the outside at will. Don't cheese it by filling the entrance with a trap wall, either. Moats are acceptable as long as there is a permanently open entrance. Also, no abusing AI and pathing by alternating between multiple openings.


2) Thou shalt not use magma workshops.

Magma workshops are totally overpowered and let you crank out a ridiculous amount of goods with basically no tradeoff compared to using regular forges and furnaces. Feel free to use magma in any other fun and dwarfly way, but do not use these cheesy workshops.

Weaning yourself off magma shops makes steel much less overpowered due to the expense of smelting it and makes bronze a much more attractive option.

Possible future mod: Disable all magma structures except magma smelters, and only allow them to process coke, not metals.


3) Thou shalt not use HFS metal.

It's the best material for everything except arrows and blunt weapons. It's the most valuable material by a landslide. It can even be made into clothes. WTF? Yeah, there's a risk that comes with harvesting, but it can be easily overcome by managing pathways.

Possible future mod: HFS metal is worth MUCH MUCH less in value (maybe equal to platinum), and it is the best metal only for slicing weapons (not by a landslide either), and subpar for armor.


4) Thou shalt not abuse traps.

Cage traps should NEVER be used except for the express purpose of capturing animals and should not be placed in defensive locations. Along with Rule 1, don't line your entrance with traps. NO "DANGER ROOMS" FOR TRAINING SOLDIERS.

Possible future mod: Add the cage avoid attribute to everything that isn't tameable.


5) Thou shalt not exploit the game for easy gains.

We all know a million ways to exploit the game. Bring a cave lobster for a barrel for 2 pts instead of 10. Bring sandbags for 1-pt bags. Make an atom-smashing drawbridge disposal system. Depressurize water by making it flow diagonally. Self-powered pumps. An official list of exploits should be compiled for reference by honorable dwarves.


6) Thou shalt not conduct dishonest commerce.

Yeah, you can make stone mechanisms or serrated discs and buy out a whole caravan with minimal labor... or just rob the caravan altogether with little to no consequence. No more. Also, no murdering caravans to steal loot until the caravan arc is fixed so that there is an actual consequence for it.

At least make an attempt to trade in either crafts or things the merchant specifically asks for.


7) Thou shalt not deceive dwarves into happiness.

It's pretty silly that a dwarf's whole family and pet kitten can be eaten by alligators, but the dwarf can be consoled for months by being near mist for 5 seconds. No mist generators. No "legendary" dining rooms that are just giant chambers filled with stones or weapon traps.



Appendix
Exploit List

(coming soon)

[Dutchling]

8)Thou shalt not have fun, so follow the above rules!

[penco]

*Urist McPenco hacks the Troll in the upper body, and the severed parts sail off in an arc!

[ZetaX]

Why do you forbid Atom-smasher-disposal¿ It's not like general disposal of e.g. stone gives any advantage, it just saves some FPS The only advantage is at rotting things, but even there it is small.
Instead of "self powered pumps", you should just decide that a waterwheel generates 10-20 Urist only (this solves most of these problems); it's not any better to have a single wheel running half of the fortress.

[penco]

Atom smasher disposal can be re-evaluated. It is mainly forbidden to to the fact that it's technically an exploit.

Self-powered pumps, ie Perpetual Motion Machines, have long been considered an exploit and are just silly. They don't even require a continual source of water. That's different from the fact that a waterwheel provides an awful lot of power. It's not too much power if you are building a 10-story pumpstack. One perpetual motion machine can have 10+ wheels and easily power your whole fortress while taking up basically no space and not even requiring a water source.

[thegoatgod_pan]

Thou shall treat all your pets as beloved members of society, and treat every dwarven life as an end not a means.

For extra challenge, develop a deep and abiding respect for the other races--I think that's actually described on the wiki as the "Geneva conventions" challenge--goblins get individual rooms, food water and an hour exercise monthly.

[lordnincompoop]

This is nice, keep up the good work.

Pet farming should be mentioned, in my opinion.

[ZetaX]

No, the problem is simply the wheels producing too much energy. What's the point in replacing a reactor by only two wheels standing above a river¿ they still produce enough energy to shoot enormous amounts of water through your pumps, much more than realistically possible. The costs of water energy are much lower than that of wind energy (the first needs 3 logs and 3 tiles over flowing water, the second needs surface, 3 logs and a connection eating away a good amount of energy; water gives 100, wind only 10-40 energy [everyone who every tried running pumps with 10 or 20 wind energy per plant knows what I'm talking about]).
Thus the solution should be in waterwheels producing less energy, they are the only mechanical part whose energy-efficiency is way out of the line (pumps are not that balanced as well, but not that bad in comparision).

[AWellTrainedFerret]

Even if your Fort's pop is reduced to 1, you will not abandon.

[ZetaX]

Abandoning isn't something that makes the game easier (one must rebuild or reclaim then, lot of work), but one does this if it gets boring or senseless.

[penco]

I'm not sure what's up with the sarcastic/trollish comments. This isn't about making the game ungodly hard (such as making friends with goblins). It's just about removing things that make the game stupidly easy.

Sealing off your fort makes the game stupidly easy. Yes, the game is open-ended with no real goal and therefore no absolute way to make the game easy. But, unless your goal is to have all your dwarves die, sealing your fort is basically an easy win for everyone that requires, what, 1 stone?

[ZetaX]

I only see one definitely trolling post (the 8th rule)...

[penco]

Thou shall treat all your pets as beloved members of society, and treat every dwarven life as an end not a means.

For extra challenge, develop a deep and abiding respect for the other races--I think that's actually described on the wiki as the "Geneva conventions" challenge--goblins get individual rooms, food water and an hour exercise monthly.

Being nice to pets and/or other races is certainly challenging but does not have to do with avoiding an exploit or game-breaking feature.

[NW_Kohaku]

Atom smasher disposal can be re-evaluated. It is mainly forbidden to to the fact that it's technically an exploit.

The thing is, some sort of "garbage disposal" is necessary, because simply building bigger and bigger stockpiles is pretty silly. 

Realistically, people do differentiate what is important stuff for keeping around to build new things, the finished products, and the garbage that people just want to get rid of, and would realisitically just throw into a big landfill on the other end of the fortress, or into a river, or somewhere that carried it "not here". 

It's functionally indistinguishable from dumping stuff into the magma sea, which would be logically understandable if people actually lived in environments where they could be close to magma without dying of heat or noxious gasses, so I don't think a "garbage compactor" is really breaking the intent of the game's realism any more than anything else a drawbridge does in the game right now.


I'm also not sure about how one method of making dwarves happy is "deceptive" compared to another.  I guess waterfalls might be overrated in terms of happiness, but my dwarves tend to be super-ecstatic because I make sure I have varied food of masterwork quality and similarly masterwork booze in a "legendary" dining hall filled with masterwork statues and masterwork chairs and benches and even a zoo with all the random cool critters I manage to pick up.  I put a waterfall next to the enterance there (technically, two covering both sides of the enterance) because that just adds to the coolness of my carefully-constructed Grand Hall.  (Plus, I make a mezzanine floor, because those are always neat, but they don't really notice that it's a two-story room, so it doesn't really matter.)

I don't know, to me, that seems like a pretty "honest" way to keep dwarves happy, since I purposefully went out of my way to do that just to make them happy to live there.  It sure beats eating nothing but plump helmets every day in a hole in the ground, at least.

[Ipwnurmom221]

Exploits and impossibility are part of what makes df awesome.

Huge hallways made impassable by magma traps... Bugged/Modded weapon traps that beat enemies to death with fluffy wamblers... Using dwarven water-reactors to flood the world with magma... Atom Smashing every stone on the map in a desperate attempt to increase the FPS that you killed with magma floods and spammed fluffy wambler traps...

True dorfs frown upon thine elfiness. Overpowered stuff is not an exploit that makes the game un-fun. Overpowered stuff is what makes the game awesome (and !!FUN!!)!