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[TolyK]

I don't know if you know or not, but SAVAGE + EVIL is terrifying, BENIGN + EVIL is sinister, SAVAGE + GOOD is untamed wilds, etc.. It's impossible to have every black creature be savage evil without them only showing up in terrifying areas.

Yeah I know that. I was thinking that the bigger/more dangerous ones could be savage+evil=terrifying

Personally, I'd make every black creature EVIL and every white creature GOOD, and simply make the stronger creatures SAVAGE and the weaker ones BENIGN. This should allow players to, say, embark on a benign area if they don't want much trouble, or a savage area if they want more difficulty, regardless of the alignment.

exactly.

The point of doing things this way is so the player has a choice in the flavour of things (want to see evil creatures but don't want a difficult game? Pick sinister. Want good surroundings but difficulty? Pick untamed wilds). Vanilla DF is a bit lacking in this regard, as evil areas are universally more dangerous than good ones, but in MTG, white is just as dangerous as black as blue as red.

yeah, lets do it like that.
it seems that green creatures can be (loosely) based of the vanilla ones.

[Seriyu]

I'll just make the workshops and the reactions I described in them, and when everything's in line for both my and your method you can post both things and see what people in the thread like more.

Not sure what you meant by multiplier of color>2 colorless. One colored mana gets traded for 2 colorless?

Might be a bit though, I'm still not great at making creature bodies, and this'd be my first time working with castes. I need practice on it I suppose.

[3]

Not sure what you meant by multiplier of color>2 colorless. One colored mana gets traded for 2 colorless?

Presuming that is what he meant, it'd make sense, since you'd really ever have access to one or two colours in any one biome. In that case, it'd also be important to be able to turn colourless mana into coloured mana - at great cost, of course. Maybe some kind of rare mineral? It'd be even more amusing if that mineral was otherwise useful (I'm thinking darksteel/brightsteel, as little sense as it makes lore-wise).

[Seriyu]

You could trade gems and a pile of colorless mana for some colored mana. Like say, 5 gems, 10 colorless mana = 5 of x color mana. Scaled up or down as nessacery.

Only issue is gems aren't particularly important to much, but on the other hand, gems are also very rare comparatively to metal.

[TolyK]

I'll just make the workshops and the reactions I described in them, and when everything's in line for both my and your method you can post both things and see what people in the thread like more.

actually go full speed ahead. I'll probably suck at that D:

Not sure what you meant by multiplier of color>2 colorless. One colored mana gets traded for 2 colorless?

yeah, kinda.
*****

Not sure what you meant by multiplier of color>2 colorless. One colored mana gets traded for 2 colorless?

Presuming that is what he meant, it'd make sense, since you'd really ever have access to one or two colours in any one biome. In that case, it'd also be important to be able to turn colourless mana into coloured mana - at great cost, of course. Maybe some kind of rare mineral? It'd be even more amusing if that mineral was otherwise useful (I'm thinking darksteel/brightsteel, as little sense as it makes lore-wise).

You could trade gems and a pile of colorless mana for some colored mana. Like say, 5 gems, 10 colorless mana = 5 of x color mana. Scaled up or down as nessacery.

Only issue is gems aren't particularly important to much, but on the other hand, gems are also very rare comparatively to metal.

..
HEY GOOD IDEA!
We could have 2 colorless mana + 1/2 gems of a certain color = 2 certain-colored mana!

I.E.
We have 4 colorless mana, red sapphire, and green emerald. We can make 2 red and 2 green mana with this (because they're worth a lot), but we'd need 2 low-cost ones to make the 2 mana.

Makes sense?

[TolyK]

or gems can be re-usable.
given how gems are rare...
or it could make large batches at a time.

EDIT: whoops doublepost
darksteel I will try to mod in, based on adamantine and steel. (duh)

[Seriyu]

Iunno if we can sort gems by color without a load of reactions but It's a neat idea so I'll poke around with it and see what happens.

Also I have an idea for the new forging system, and I figured I'd pass it by people first to see if anyone has opinions on the matter.

First, metalsmith's forge would still be in for the sake of me not having to put in 50 "make battle-axe normally"-esque reactions.

However, at the manasmith's forge (Pending a better name if anyone has suggestions or we find one) you could take a bar of iron, for instance, and push it up to bronze, with a handful of red and green mana. For even MORE red and green mana you could push it up to steel. etc etc etc. Ideally pushing iron to say, adamantine would take so much mana that it would not actually be possible on most maps. In fact making adamantine with this method would in general be a gigantic resource drain, even with steel (or darksteel, or any new metals that will be stronger then steel but weaker then adamantine), so as to not trivialize digging out the stuff.

Maybe you could upgrade seperate equipment pieces to a higher level for extra mana? Specific weapons or armor might spread the mana cost out more with some weapons or armor. Like a dagger could take 10 red, 10 green, and 5 blue mana, where a battle axe would take 15 red and green mana. Just some examples.
 
And with that I'll put urza's avenger on hold and start working on that colorless/gem = colored mana workshop.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Ommited info about colors:

Red creatures are glass cannons. Red spells are direct-damage, usually.
White creatures tend to be upholding the ideals of law and(/or?) virtue. They are also into protection magic.
Blue creatures have a predilection towards flying, not just white ones. Blue spells are complex, powerful, and often have to do with mind-meddling.
Green isn't just forests and pansy elves. Giant creatures that eat elves or elephants, and ones that eat THOSE, have a tendency to be green. Green spells often involve summoning/otherwise getting more creatures or lands; others sorta-mimic green's "cousins," white and red.
Black is necromancy. 'Nuff said.

[TolyK]

Iunno if we can sort gems by color without a load of reactions but It's a neat idea so I'll poke around with it and see what happens.

It might turn out that we will have loads of reactions...

Also I have an idea for the new forging system, and I figured I'd pass it by people first to see if anyone has opinions on the matter.

First, metalsmith's forge would still be in for the sake of me not having to put in 50 "make battle-axe normally"-esque reactions.

Yeah, that would be bad.

However, at the manasmith's forge (Pending a better name if anyone has suggestions or we find one) you could take a bar of iron, for instance, and push it up to bronze, with a handful of red and green mana. For even MORE red and green mana you could push it up to steel. etc etc etc. Ideally pushing iron to say, adamantine would take so much mana that it would not actually be possible on most maps. In fact making adamantine with this method would in general be a gigantic resource drain, even with steel (or darksteel, or any new metals that will be stronger then steel but weaker then adamantine), so as to not trivialize digging out the stuff.

I'm not sure we should leave adamantine other than a seal to the underworld. Darksteel should be actually indestructible, but "remove from game" attacks/"spells" would be syndromes for ALL creatures.
If we decide to though, this would be nice.

Maybe you could upgrade seperate equipment pieces to a higher level for extra mana? Specific weapons or armor might spread the mana cost out more with some weapons or armor. Like a dagger could take 10 red, 10 green, and 5 blue mana, where a battle axe would take 15 red and green mana. Just some examples.

hm... not that much, but at least some.

And with that I'll put urza's avenger on hold and start working on that colorless/gem = colored mana workshop.

ok cool.
***

Ommited info about colors:

Red creatures are glass cannons. Red spells are direct-damage, usually.

Yes, but how would we do direct-damage? Maybe heat attacks to which red is immune?

White creatures tend to be upholding the ideals of law and(/or?) virtue. They are also into protection magic.

Yes, but that would be... difficult. Maybe crafting magic armor?

Blue creatures have a predilection towards flying, not just white ones. Blue spells are complex, powerful, and often have to do with mind-meddling.

Yes, fliers. Mind-meddling... huh.

Green isn't just forests and pansy elves. Giant creatures that eat elves or elephants, and ones that eat THOSE, have a tendency to be green. Green spells often involve summoning/otherwise getting more creatures or lands; others sorta-mimic green's "cousins," white and red.

Yeah, mana and tiger-eats-dog-eats-dog.

Black is necromancy. 'Nuff said.

And demons too, though that would be hard to work in... unless we just remove "hell"/the passage to it and make our own (rare) demons as megabeasts?

[Seriyu]

If you're going the "no more hell" route you could give slade the DEEP_SPECIAL tag, remove adamantine and it would make hell unable to be broken into, I think. Or you could make adamantine undiggable.

[TolyK]

If you're going the "no more hell" route you could give slade the DEEP_SPECIAL tag, remove adamantine and it would make hell unable to be broken into, I think. Or you could make adamantine undiggable.

something like that, only there's a problem with that:
there's a possibility for mandates of those

[Seriyu]

I'll take your word for it, as I've only really read about that.

On the note of the mana workshop(s), colorless -> red mana, using red gems is done and should be working right, but I don't have so much time to test it.

I may split the reactions into seperate buildings by color so as to avoid having a single workshop with like 80 potential reactions.

[TolyK]

I'll take your word for it, as I've only really read about that.

On the note of the mana workshop(s), colorless -> red mana, using red gems is done and should be working right, but I don't have so much time to test it.

Cool! Post the raws somewhere (.zip is preferred ) and I'll try it out.

I may split the reactions into seperate buildings by color so as to avoid having a single workshop with like 80 potential reactions.

...
Good idea. I hadn't thought about that. Although... wait!
You know how metals can use either bars or nuggets/ore? We could make a "red mana from colorless using red gem" reaction.
However the workshops separation should be better, as then we'll have "black mage's workshop".
...
Or wait.
...
Y'know what? Let me just make a mock-up in psuedotags.

[Mekboy]

I saw this thread, and was inspired to add myr. I've only done the 5 mana myr, and they have no way of producing mana, but I'm pretty happy with them. Just thought I'd share them with you. Also, for some reason, their punch doesn't work.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

creature_myr

[OBJECT:CREATURE]

[CREATURE:MYR]
   [DESCRIPTION:A small, metallic creature with a hidden glimmer of intellect.]
   [NAME:myr:myr:myr]
   [CASTE_NAME:myr:myr:myr]
   [BODY:HUMANOID:2EYES:HUMANOID_JOINTS:3FINGERS]
   [NO_THOUGHT_CENTER_FOR_MOVEMENT]
   [BODY_SIZE:0:0:35000]
    [CASTE:IRON]
        [CASTE_NAME:iron myr:iron myr:iron myr]
        [POP_RATIO:10000]
    [CASTE:LEAD]
        [CASTE_NAME:leaden myr:leaden myr:leaden myr]
        [POP_RATIO:10000]
    [CASTE:SILVER]
        [CASTE_NAME:silver myr:silver myr:silver myr]
        [POP_RATIO:10000]
    [CASTE:GOLD]
        [CASTE_NAME:gold myr:gold myr:gold myr]
        [POP_RATIO:10000]
    [CASTE:COPPER]
        [CASTE_NAME:copper myr:copper myr:copper myr]
        [POP_RATIO:10000]
    [SELECT_CASTE:IRON]
[TISSUE:IRON]
    [TISSUE_NAME:iron:iron]
    [TISSUE_MATERIAL:INORGANIC:IRON]
    [MUSCULAR]
    [FUNCTIONAL]
    [STRUCTURAL]
    [RELATIVE_THICKNESS:1]
    [CONNECTS]
    [TISSUE_SHAPE:LAYER]
[TISSUE_LAYER:BY_CATEGORY:ALL:IRON]
    [SELECT_CASTE:LEAD]
[TISSUE:LEAD]
    [TISSUE_NAME:lead:lead]
    [TISSUE_MATERIAL:INORGANIC:LEAD]
    [MUSCULAR]
    [FUNCTIONAL]
    [STRUCTURAL]
    [RELATIVE_THICKNESS:1]
    [CONNECTS]
    [TISSUE_SHAPE:LAYER]
[TISSUE_LAYER:BY_CATEGORY:ALL:LEAD]
    [SELECT_CASTE:SILVER]
[TISSUE:SILVER]
    [TISSUE_NAME:silver:silver]
    [TISSUE_MATERIAL:INORGANIC:SILVER]
    [MUSCULAR]
    [FUNCTIONAL]
    [STRUCTURAL]
    [RELATIVE_THICKNESS:1]
    [CONNECTS]
    [TISSUE_SHAPE:LAYER]
[TISSUE_LAYER:BY_CATEGORY:ALL:SILVER]
    [SELECT_CASTE:GOLD]
[TISSUE:GOLD]
    [TISSUE_NAME:gold:gold]
    [TISSUE_MATERIAL:INORGANIC:GOLD]
    [MUSCULAR]
    [FUNCTIONAL]
    [STRUCTURAL]
    [RELATIVE_THICKNESS:1]
    [CONNECTS]
    [TISSUE_SHAPE:LAYER]
[TISSUE_LAYER:BY_CATEGORY:ALL:GOLD]
    [SELECT_CASTE:COPPER]
[TISSUE:COPPER]
    [TISSUE_NAME:copper:copper]
    [TISSUE_MATERIAL:INORGANIC:COPPER]
    [MUSCULAR]
    [FUNCTIONAL]
    [STRUCTURAL]
    [RELATIVE_THICKNESS:1]
    [CONNECTS]
    [TISSUE_SHAPE:LAYER]
[TISSUE_LAYER:BY_CATEGORY:ALL:COPPER]
   [CREATURE_TILE:'M'][COLOR:0:0:1]
   [NOPAIN][EXTRAVISION][NOBREATHE][NOSTUN][NONAUSEA][NOEMOTION]
   [NOSTUCKINS][NOTHOUGHT][NOEXERT][PARALYZEIMMUNE]
   [NO_DIZZINESS]
   [NO_FEVERS]
   [NO_DRINK][NO_EAT][NO_SLEEP]
   [SPHERE:METALS]
   [CANNOT_UNDEAD]
   [CAN_LEARN]
   [EXTRAVISION]
   [CANOPENDOORS]
   [NOT_BUTCHERABLE]
   [BIOME:ANY_LAND]
   [NOFEAR]
   [PET]
   [PREFSTRING:cute appearance:bulbous heads:metallic appearance:mysterious intellect]
   [PETVALUE:200]
   [NOBONES]
   [ATTACK:PUNCH:BODYPART:BY_TYPE:GRASP]
      [ATTACK_SKILL:GRASP_STRIKE]
      [ATTACK_VERB:punch:punches]
      [ATTACK_CONTACT_PERC:100]
      [ATTACK_FLAG_WITH]
      [ATTACK_PRIORITY:MAIN]
   [SWIMS_LEARNED][SWIM_SPEED:2500]

[3]

1. Prefstrings don't quite work like that.
2. You need a SELECT_CASTE:ALL after the COPPER TISSUE_LAYER tag.

As discussed earlier, it'd be ideal if they were split into several creatures by biome (iron myr in red biomes, leaden in black biomes, etc.). The only myr that would show up everywhere would be the colourless ones.