Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Poll

Should Cannabis Be Legalized?

Yes
- 67 (62.6%)
Yes, but only if the amount you could own at any one time was limited
- 14 (13.1%)
Yes, but for Medicinal uses only
- 10 (9.3%)
Yes, but only for chronic illnesses(Cancer, AIDS, Crohn's Disease, etc.)
- 3 (2.8%)
No
- 13 (12.1%)

Total Members Voted: 107


Pages: 1 ... 8 9 [10] 11

Author Topic: Marijuana:Should it be legalized?  (Read 7590 times)

Bohandas

  • Bay Watcher
  • Discordia Vobis Com Et Cum Spiritum
    • View Profile
Re: Marijuana:Should it be legalized?
« Reply #135 on: February 08, 2011, 08:55:31 am »

I also think that they should legalize Opium, Magic Mushrooms, and LySergic acid Diethylamide
Logged
NEW Petition to stop the anti-consumer, anti-worker, Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement
What is TPP
----------------------
Remember, no one can tell you who you are except an emotionally unattached outside observer making quantifiable measurements.
----------------------
Έπαινος Ερις

Neonivek

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Marijuana:Should it be legalized?
« Reply #136 on: February 08, 2011, 09:03:01 am »

I also think that they should legalize Opium, Magic Mushrooms, and LySergic acid Diethylamide

Not Opium... Havn't we outdated and exceeded it in everyway?

Unless your including the whole Opiate family
Logged

Glowcat

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Marijuana:Should it be legalized?
« Reply #137 on: February 08, 2011, 09:42:46 am »

I think the real problem would be more "people who can't get their next fix will often destroy other people's lives in an effort to get another fix, and don't really care about laws anymore most of the time."
I seem to recall reading about a government program, I believe in Switzerland (though I could be wrong), though I'm hazy on the specifics, that went out and gave free heroin to addicts, along with literature regarding treatments and whatnot, with the express purpose of shutting down the black market trade in it and reducing related crime, with further prevention as a secondary goal. As I recall, it was controversial, but successful.

You're probably thinking of Portugal.

Kinda late but I skimmed and didn't see anybody else correct you


@Max White: Try to link to papers (http://archpsyc.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/archgenpsychiatry.2011.5) instead of journalism, when possible.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2011, 09:52:55 am by Glowcat »
Logged
Totally a weretrain. Very much trains!
I'm going to steamroll this house.

Siquo

  • Bay Watcher
  • Procedurally generated
    • View Profile
Re: Marijuana:Should it be legalized?
« Reply #138 on: February 08, 2011, 10:16:32 am »

Late to the party, but let me put things in perspective: A lot of people here look at the use of cannabis as they know it (which is, in an illegal form, where the mere usage or acquirement of the stuff forces you to deal with criminals) and then assume that legalisation will exacerbate that. The step from dealing with criminals to dealing with worse or becoming one is a lot smaller, I think, and that is the real gateway. Also, legalising does not mean people will use it more. Yes, really.

So, from the perspective of a country with legalised marihuana, some factoids:
Schizophrenia per capita: Exactly Average
DALY due to drug abuse: Better than average
Drug use in general compared to US: The US is twice as bad as we are

So yeah, I scoff at those who think legalisation will make matters worse. I've been an extensive user myself for years, but can't stand the stuff anymore. People do grow out of it. I'm also a well adjusted member of society (bleagh :P ), as are most users I know. Some aren't, but they probably would've fucked up their lives in a different way if it wasn't for marihuana.

Logged

This one thread is mine. MIIIIINE!!! And it will remain a happy, friendly, encouraging place, whether you lot like it or not. 
will rena,eme sique to sique sxds-- siquo if sucessufil
(cant spel siqou a. every speling looks wroing (hate this))

Sir Pseudonymous

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Marijuana:Should it be legalized?
« Reply #139 on: February 08, 2011, 01:43:27 pm »

I think the real problem would be more "people who can't get their next fix will often destroy other people's lives in an effort to get another fix, and don't really care about laws anymore most of the time."
I seem to recall reading about a government program, I believe in Switzerland (though I could be wrong), though I'm hazy on the specifics, that went out and gave free heroin to addicts, along with literature regarding treatments and whatnot, with the express purpose of shutting down the black market trade in it and reducing related crime, with further prevention as a secondary goal. As I recall, it was controversial, but successful.

You're probably thinking of Portugal.

Kinda late but I skimmed and didn't see anybody else correct you

I don't think that was, specifically, what I was referring to, but it's in the same vein in any case. What I recall reading about was something about a government handing out or administering free doses to addicts, to stop them from committing crimes to get money to buy heroin, and to undercut the black market trade with simple economics, thus further reducing crime. I could have sworn it was in Geneva or something, but it's all very hazy; I don't think I payed much attention at the time.
Logged
I'm all for eating the heart of your enemies to gain their courage though.

scriver

  • Bay Watcher
  • City streets ain't got much pity
    • View Profile
Re: Marijuana:Should it be legalized?
« Reply #140 on: February 08, 2011, 02:06:05 pm »

I think Denmark's one of the places that's been tried as well. Though it embarrasses me a little, I'm afraid I can't say if it was done in Sweden or not - my immediate reaction was that "we did it here too", but upon further thought I can't remember at all. Extra annoying since studies such as these interest me a great deal, and now I can't remember whether it was just talk about if we should try it or if it was actually done. :-[
Logged
Love, scriver~

Levi

  • Bay Watcher
  • Is a fish.
    • View Profile
Re: Marijuana:Should it be legalized?
« Reply #141 on: February 08, 2011, 02:12:45 pm »

Marijuana is harmless enough that yeah I think it should be legalized.

There are actually some very good arguments for decriminalizing all drugs and treating drug addiction as a health issue instead, mostly to stop organized crime from profiting from it and making it easier for addicts to get stability in their life as a step in breaking the addiction. 
Logged
Avid Gamer | Goldfish Enthusiast | Canadian | Professional Layabout

Max White

  • Bay Watcher
  • Still not hollowed!
    • View Profile
Re: Marijuana:Should it be legalized?
« Reply #142 on: February 08, 2011, 02:34:19 pm »

Schizophrenia per capita: Exactly Average
Can I assume this has something to do with that little link posting to a university study showing a link between use in early life and the development of schizophrenia?

I like how your flat figures that do not take offer factors into account trump my scientific study.

Siquo

  • Bay Watcher
  • Procedurally generated
    • View Profile
Re: Marijuana:Should it be legalized?
« Reply #143 on: February 08, 2011, 03:18:13 pm »

I like how your flat figures that do not take offer factors into account trump my scientific study.
A: As Yoda would say: Correlation does not science make. And
B: It shows that the legalisation of marihuana does not have a significant impact on the total amount of schizophrenia.
Logged

This one thread is mine. MIIIIINE!!! And it will remain a happy, friendly, encouraging place, whether you lot like it or not. 
will rena,eme sique to sique sxds-- siquo if sucessufil
(cant spel siqou a. every speling looks wroing (hate this))

Max White

  • Bay Watcher
  • Still not hollowed!
    • View Profile
Re: Marijuana:Should it be legalized?
« Reply #144 on: February 08, 2011, 03:23:11 pm »

A. And yet your figures do?
B. Well not realy, your statistics do not even give an average, just a medium. We could use a standard deviation or atleast something more then just being able to compair the ranks of countrys without anything behind it.

ChairmanPoo

  • Bay Watcher
  • Send in the clowns
    • View Profile
Re: Marijuana:Should it be legalized?
« Reply #145 on: February 08, 2011, 03:27:54 pm »

The first thing I'm going to do is ask what the link you provided means exactly. Because the page title is:
Quote
Mortality Statistics > Schizophrenia (per capita) (most recent) by country
And it displays "deaths per million".  So, is this really representing the incidence of schizophrenia in the Netherlands? Or casualties of some sort related to it?

EDIT: Lets check the primary sources they used, shall we? I found that site wanting and confusing. They did not provide much info about the data they provided.

http://www.who.int/gho/en/

At the moment I'm checking this:

http://www.unodc.org/documents/wdr/WDR_2010/2.4_Cannabis.pdf
« Last Edit: February 08, 2011, 03:32:56 pm by ChairmanPoo »
Logged
Everyone sucks at everything. Until they don't. Not sucking is a product of time invested.

lemon10

  • Bay Watcher
  • Citrus Master
    • View Profile
Re: Marijuana:Should it be legalized?
« Reply #146 on: February 08, 2011, 03:33:34 pm »

Shamelessly stolen from wikipedia
Quote
There is some evidence that cannabis use can contribute to schizophrenia. Some studies suggest that cannabis is neither a sufficient nor necessary factor in developing schizophrenia, but that cannabis may significantly increase the risk of developing schizophrenia and may be, among other things, a significant causal factor. Nevertheless, some previous research in this area has been criticized as it has often not been clear whether cannabis use is a cause or effect of schizophrenia. To address this issue, a recent review of studies from which a causal contribution to schizophrenia can be assessed has suggested that cannabis statistically doubles the risk of developing schizophrenia on the individual level, and may, assuming a causal relationship, be responsible for up to 8% of cases in the population.[83]

An older longitudinal study, published in 1987, suggested sixfold increase of schizophrenia risks for high consumers of cannabis (use on more than fifty occasions) in Sweden.[84]

Despite increases in cannabis consumption in the 1960s and 1970s in western society, rates of psychotic disorders such as schizophrenia remained relatively stable.[85][86][87] Also, Sweden and Japan, where self-reported marijuana use is very low, do not have lower rates of psychosis than the U.S. and Canada do.[88]
Just a bit more info for you guys to argue about.
Logged
And with a mighty leap, the evil Conservative flies through the window, escaping our heroes once again!
Because the solution to not being able to control your dakka is MOAR DAKKA.

That's it. We've finally crossed over and become the nation of Da Orky Boyz.

Siquo

  • Bay Watcher
  • Procedurally generated
    • View Profile
Re: Marijuana:Should it be legalized?
« Reply #147 on: February 08, 2011, 04:10:33 pm »

The first thing I'm going to do is ask what the link you provided means exactly. Because the page title is:
Quote
Mortality Statistics > Schizophrenia (per capita) (most recent) by country
Yeah, honestly, I couldn't be bothered to actually read beyond "ah, this looks like it supports my cause let's just throw it in".
I'm sorry guys, you didn't deserve that.
Logged

This one thread is mine. MIIIIINE!!! And it will remain a happy, friendly, encouraging place, whether you lot like it or not. 
will rena,eme sique to sique sxds-- siquo if sucessufil
(cant spel siqou a. every speling looks wroing (hate this))

Max White

  • Bay Watcher
  • Still not hollowed!
    • View Profile
Re: Marijuana:Should it be legalized?
« Reply #148 on: February 08, 2011, 04:14:38 pm »

I have this urge to say something about linking marijuana use to lazy debating, but that would be some what of a dick move, so I will just meta-mention it instead.

Siquo

  • Bay Watcher
  • Procedurally generated
    • View Profile
Re: Marijuana:Should it be legalized?
« Reply #149 on: February 08, 2011, 04:42:20 pm »

I have this urge to say something about linking marijuana use to lazy debating, but that would be some what of a dick move, so I will just meta-mention it instead.
Then I shall meta-lol about it.

Well, my point stays: the effects of smoking marihuana have nothing to do with the effects of legalisation of marihuana. In the Netherlands, less people smoke marihuana than in the US (per capita). So the facts-or-not that it's a stepping stone, gateway, schizo-inducing, harddrug laced future-destroyer has actually nothing to do with legalisation, if anything, they are reasons that you should legalise it, as less people will actually use it.
Source: that pdf Chairman linked to, last page, top map.
Logged

This one thread is mine. MIIIIINE!!! And it will remain a happy, friendly, encouraging place, whether you lot like it or not. 
will rena,eme sique to sique sxds-- siquo if sucessufil
(cant spel siqou a. every speling looks wroing (hate this))
Pages: 1 ... 8 9 [10] 11