NW, i'm just enjoying discussing the possibilities of magic. No need to get salty . I am surprised I didnt notice that typo. its fixed now, (even though it doesnt matter hehe)
Perhaps you should take more time considering your posts than posting if you're so insistent that I respond to them all. You are posting multiple spur-of-the-moment one-sentence responses to every multi-paragraph response I make.
Already there are people saying they can't be bothered to read through 13 pages of text, so bloating it with this sort of nonsense only aggravates that problem while adding no useful content.
Seriously?
I am not getting salty with you am I? why do you have to do that to me?
I wrote a very big response, which you have yet to respond to.
In fact you have yet to respond to many of my points. Instead choosing to respond to the posts I made that were small. (yeah i linked the other quote, but you completely ignored the paragraph long post right before yours, that talked about the procedural magic systems that are already being created by toadys algorithm)
Its not nonsense. In fact its quite well thought out.
Many of these spells sound cheap (as in an in-game cost) for utterly random and arbitrary effects. Especially in Fortress Mode, I suspect these will either have no AI support, the way that swimming or flying creatures are simply unsupported, or create tremendous problems with dwarves using potentially helpful magic in wildly stupid ways. (Dwarven Axemaster: "Oh, you think you have me now, rutherer, you plant-munching fiend? Well, you may be confident in your blunt teeth and slow grinding bite against my impervious masterwork steel armor and monstrously powerful axe swing, but wait until I TURN INTO A RUTABEGA! WHAT THEN!" *poof* *rutherer chews on a rutabega that used to be an elite axedwarf and masterwork steel equipment that are now forever lost*)
Take this for example, you argue that "oh the ai cant support that right now" But that doesn't mean toady can't write AI that does support it. Yes it will take time, yes it might be silly at first (like has happened in the past) , but once you have ai for "turning into a plant" you can use it for other things, like turning into a rodent, or turning into a stone, all of which are planned. (see vampires turning into bats, which is planned but not added yet) (SO I don't just mean plants here, they are just a example)
And that's the thing I really want to stress - no matter how "strange" or "exotic" it seems to have any random magic system in this game as a hypothetical, the instant it's in the game, it will lose all novelty.
And how is this an argument for not doing it?
I can't help but think that turning into a plant is some kind of elaborate suicide spell, considering the way that DF tends to work, since there's no indication that a plant will retain a brain with the capacity to turn oneself back. (Also, why plants? Isn't that an elf thing to turn yourself into?)
I have a feeling that if it was in its kind of like illusion magic, eg you are still yourself, you just look like a plant or something. But yeah it is rather elven isn't it.
We have no idea whether it will kill you though, all we have is a text dump and an incomplete prototype, so maybe it will work that way(if he ever adds it at all) (though i dont see why you would do it that way) , its more likely you would retain your brain (or at least your "soul" object (which is the data structure holds mental attributes in dwarf fortress) and be able to make decisions.) when you transform into a thing Toady did mention that you can put the soul object in an item (though he hasnt used it for that yet) perhaps turning into plants is what that is for. (not just plants obviously)
Also, no, it's not "a different magic system". You're talking about one magic system with different effects within that magic system.
Making multiple magic systems would be an even worse idea, because each individual magic system is an additional layer of complexity and chance for game-breaking bugs for even less effort or content in any single one, and hence, less emergent gameplay value for any given system.
Besides that, "the force permeating the world" is meaningless without definition as to what that force actually constitutes or does. If Toady actually does create a system where he makes the forces permeating the world have rules and definitions, then that's basically what Xenosynthesis is supposed to be, anyway.
(this section has been edited to clarify what I mean, since I originally posted it)
I responded to this for the most part however lets get something straight I never said I didn't like the idea of "xenosynthesis", I came here to discus magic, since you linked it as a potential place to discuss it.
In fact I think the idea is rather interesting, its just that there are other ways of doing things you know.
I don't want "multiple magic systems" either (eg same general idea toadys already running with, (which they all follow, casting a spell costs something and it makes you more faded or you lose memories " whatever it generates.)
I do however want to be able to choose what it focuses on, for example we will have floating primordial dew (magic biomes) I want to be able to allow for greater amounts of magical biomes , less other magic , and more powerful artifacts, stuff like that. (stuff like we currently have in the advanced world gen parameters)
Sphere based regions have been mentioned as a possibility , toady says they plan to make the whole "it permeates" "it sponataneusly creates" things much more succinct and less vague though. Perhaps sphere based regions will be specifically for alternate planes (he mentioned that in the df talk on the subject) , but that doesnt mean it cant be expanded to the larger world. And its a potential magic system, but I don't see why it should be limited to just that. Especially since he is already clearly working on an algorithm for generating (at least) text descriptions of magic systems that are wildly different from it. Algorithms are built so that they can be transferred, since he has the algorithm now, he can port it to dwarf fortress and make it actually work, thereby the work pertaining to generating them is already taken care of.
Xenosynthesis revolves around both the notion that magic is local, which means that if you have the capacity to cast spells that run on death sphere, for example, then a different area of the world with little death sphere magic may make casting the spell impossible or very taxing or require you take some sort of sacrificial item or creature as a "battery" to store your magic power into the voids in sphere magic you can control.
FOr example, I personally love this idea, and the idea of the thread, but that doesn't mean we cant think about other possibilities!
By different magic system, I meant a different world that had completely different myths that generated a completely different way that magic works.
I also think xenosynthesis is a pretty good idea, just that I think Toady kind of has the whole possible effects of magic, and downsides of magic, so all the debate going on about all these wild magic tables or whatever isn't really needed.
I agree that xenosynthesis works, and the whole "different magic system" thing.
Despite the fact that toady has it planned out (2000 different written out items) I think discussions promote good design so toady can see what we say and be like "oh i never thought of that" for example the kumquat thing nw mentioned, I also just like discussing possibilities with people, though It is a shame when someone thinks you are attacking them by questioning their judgement.