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Author Topic: Dwarf Fortress Clone?  (Read 69530 times)

DwarvesH

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Re: Dwarf Fortress Clone?
« Reply #270 on: February 18, 2011, 09:26:41 am »

Well, this thread has sure become quite. While I am happy that the flame war is done, I didn't come here to make people shut up. Besides the discussion of cloning, there were a few other interesting concerns and ideas raised here.

Since a lot of people have strong feeling about DF here and are experienced with it and maybe some other products, like goblin camp and what-not, I would like to dig into those ideas. I would like to see if there are some people interested about having a short discussion about the future of the genre and mistakes that should not be repeated.

squeakyReaper

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Re: Dwarf Fortress Clone?
« Reply #271 on: February 18, 2011, 09:50:41 am »

Well, this thread has sure become quite. While I am happy that the flame war is done, I didn't come here to make people shut up. Besides the discussion of cloning, there were a few other interesting concerns and ideas raised here.

Since a lot of people have strong feeling about DF here and are experienced with it and maybe some other products, like goblin camp and what-not, I would like to dig into those ideas. I would like to see if there are some people interested about having a short discussion about the future of the genre and mistakes that should not be repeated.

It's mostly touchyness.  The Toady One and Three-Toe are the only developers of Dwarf Fortress.  They make a living off of it, essentially.  Should something threatening enough come up that it earns money, that's money that could have gone towards Dwarf Fortress's development.  If that happens, it's very possible that they'll stop being able to develop Dwarf Fortress as much, or at all.  At least, that's how I see it.
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Truean

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Re: Dwarf Fortress Clone?
« Reply #272 on: February 18, 2011, 10:28:48 am »

If Toady needs a good IP Lawyer he could probably find one.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2015, 09:03:32 pm by Truean »
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Andir

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Re: Dwarf Fortress Clone?
« Reply #273 on: February 18, 2011, 10:46:24 am »

If Toady needs a good IP Lawyer I know a few hungry to sue the crap out of someone.
/facepalm
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Truean

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Re: Dwarf Fortress Clone?
« Reply #274 on: February 18, 2011, 12:13:58 pm »

If Toady needs a good IP Lawyer I know a few hungry to sue the crap out of someone.
/facepalm

I know he got permission, but if he exceeds the scope of that permission.... :).
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The kinda human wreckage that you love

Current Spare Time Fiction Project: (C) 2010 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63660.0
Disclaimer: I never take cases online for ethical reasons. If you require an attorney; you need to find one licensed to practice in your jurisdiction. Never take anything online as legal advice, because each case is different and one size does not fit all. Wants nothing at all to do with law.

Please don't quote me.

squeakyReaper

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Re: Dwarf Fortress Clone?
« Reply #275 on: February 18, 2011, 12:19:37 pm »

If Toady needs a good IP Lawyer I know a few hungry to sue the crap out of someone.
/facepalm

I know he got permission, but if he exceeds the scope of that permission.... :).
He...  didn't get permission.  And DF isn't copyrighted AFAIK, so there's no real grounds to sue over...  Err.  Yeah.
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Truean

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Re: Dwarf Fortress Clone?
« Reply #276 on: February 18, 2011, 12:23:54 pm »

If Toady needs a good IP Lawyer I know a few hungry to sue the crap out of someone.
/facepalm

I know he got permission, but if he exceeds the scope of that permission.... :).
He...  didn't get permission.  And DF isn't copyrighted AFAIK, so there's no real grounds to sue over...  Err.  Yeah.

I just hope Toady protects himself and nobody takes his code and livelihood.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2015, 09:10:14 pm by Truean »
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The kinda human wreckage that you love

Current Spare Time Fiction Project: (C) 2010 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63660.0
Disclaimer: I never take cases online for ethical reasons. If you require an attorney; you need to find one licensed to practice in your jurisdiction. Never take anything online as legal advice, because each case is different and one size does not fit all. Wants nothing at all to do with law.

Please don't quote me.

Nadaka

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Re: Dwarf Fortress Clone?
« Reply #277 on: February 18, 2011, 12:25:29 pm »

He...  didn't get permission.  And DF isn't copyrighted AFAIK, so there's no real grounds to sue over...  Err.  Yeah.

Everything is under copyright the moment you create/distribute it.
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eerr

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Re: Dwarf Fortress Clone?
« Reply #278 on: February 18, 2011, 12:31:02 pm »

Clearly, Toady needs to SUE to protect his creation

/Sarcasm.
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Sean Mirrsen

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Re: Dwarf Fortress Clone?
« Reply #279 on: February 18, 2011, 12:41:51 pm »

I think DwarvesH has a point about using someone else's content in the design of your own game. As a programmer interested in that area, I know too well how hard it can be to build up enough content to actually have something for the code to work with. Even for just the placeholders. If I ever went on to make a DF-like game of my own, I'd take DF's raws as base material without a second thought - because I'd know I wouldn't keep using them in the end, but in the meantime they'd provide me a framework I could build around.

Case in point - the SpringRTS engine. Paraphrasing the famous intro, "What began as a project to transfer the Total Annihilation game onto a new engine, escalated into an opensource RTS engine with a million games." SpringRTS began as a simple RTS engine project, utilizing all content (bar maps) from Total Annihilation directly, even from the same archive formats. Content-wise, it was fully compatible. Time went on, people remade old unit models into new ones, then a whole new model format was introduced, and now the only things connecting SpringRTS to Total Annihilation are the folder structure for content, and some variable names in unit files. Even in games/mods specifically meant to recreate the old TA feel, though bits and pieces of the original textures are also used in those. And probably sounds too.

All I'm saying is that using another game's content to help develop your own isn't a bad thing - while you are, indeed, using another's work, as long as you don't plan to pass this work off as your own, you're good. With this in mind, Godspeed, Dwarvesh! Perhaps you can take your game to places where DF dares not tread. (though with the planned scope of DF, I don't think you'll find those places anytime soon. Well, at least you'll have a conventional interface. Earlier, at any rate. :))
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Willfor

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Re: Dwarf Fortress Clone?
« Reply #280 on: February 18, 2011, 01:02:35 pm »

Speaking of litigation, the general state of how prevalent it is in the US made someone I know start putting this disclaimer in his work:

Quote
This program is free. That means you have no right to complain if:
Your computer crashes.
Your car crashes.
Your hard drive gets deleted.
The operating system gets overwritten.
You get audited by the IRS.
Your sound card melts.
You forget your toothbrush.
ETC.

Basically, anything bad which happens to you at all which is even
the _slightest_ bit connected to this program, you cannot sue me for
under the terms of this disclaimer.

And as a second layer, I am now declaring it ILLEGAL TO USE THIS
PROGRAM IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. If you do, and this program
causes you grief in any way or form, you may think that you could get
around the first part, but not if you weren't allowed to be using it
in the first place! I know how sue-happy you are over there, so the
rest of you can blame those who are.
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Truean

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Re: Dwarf Fortress Clone?
« Reply #281 on: February 18, 2011, 01:16:48 pm »

Quote
Clearly, Toady needs to SUE to protect his creation

/Sarcasm.

Why do you think we have IP law?
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The kinda human wreckage that you love

Current Spare Time Fiction Project: (C) 2010 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63660.0
Disclaimer: I never take cases online for ethical reasons. If you require an attorney; you need to find one licensed to practice in your jurisdiction. Never take anything online as legal advice, because each case is different and one size does not fit all. Wants nothing at all to do with law.

Please don't quote me.

Soadreqm

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Re: Dwarf Fortress Clone?
« Reply #282 on: February 18, 2011, 01:50:51 pm »

It would be kind of hilarious if Toady stopped developing DF to fight an arduous legal battle about it. :P

How would you go about "protecting" DF, anyway? It's a creative work, and basic copyright covers it until decades after his death. I guess he could patent some of it, but that's a bit of an ordeal all by itself. Plus, I'm pretty sure patents expire after a while, whereas he's going to be developing this game for the whole foreseeable future. And software patents aren't globally respected, anyway. And it would just be SILLY. He could probably register the words "plump helmet" as a trademark, but I'm betting it'd be more trouble than it's worth.

The way he's currently stopping people from taking his code and livelyhood is basically keeping it in his house and not showing it to strangers. It works, because reverse-engineering the whole game is a pretty big undertaking, and there really isn't a market for cheap Dwarf Fortress knockoffs. There's one game in the genre so far, and that one runs on donations. :P
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Urist is dead tome

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Re: Dwarf Fortress Clone?
« Reply #283 on: February 18, 2011, 03:49:29 pm »

I guess he could patent some of it, but that's a bit of an ordeal all by itself.

Oh you better believe it! Patenting stuff really shouldn't be so ridiculously hard.
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CoughDrop

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Re: Dwarf Fortress Clone?
« Reply #284 on: February 18, 2011, 06:03:37 pm »

I guess he could patent some of it, but that's a bit of an ordeal all by itself.

Oh you better believe it! Patenting stuff really shouldn't be so ridiculously hard.

Why not? I think it's rather ridiculous to claim that you own an idea in the first place. Once you share an idea, you give it to others regardless if you've patented it. Not to mention that someone probably had a near clone of your idea before you, just that they didn't bother to patent it.

In the end, all it really is is a selfish grab for money. Although that's just my view; I really do hate greed, and that's why I admire Toady. (don't pull that bullshit that greed is ok because of capitalism -- it's still fucking greed)
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