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[burningpet]

I'm just going to note here that the only reason that the Palestinians are living in hell is because the pointless blockade. The Palestinian Government offered a cease fire during the negotiations-which was rejected by Israel.

Uh, no? the pointless blockade was done to prevent hamas from amassing rockets and weapons. obviously that failed, but because israel had no control on the egyptian border.
When people keep making such claims, it only strengthen hamas grip on the strip and perpetuate palestines sufferings.

And no, the hamas truce is a plain ruse. the proposed egyptian truce is far fairer and that was accepted by israel. the reason hamas rejected it, is because he still didn't have a plain "victory shot" and without one it could have lost its grip on the strip and because Qatar meddled in the affairs telling them not to accept the truce, because they are a radical islamists country that support terror organizations throughout the world and wanted to elevate themselves in the regional politics on the expense of the palestines people.

[Wolfhunter107]

I'm just going to note here that the only reason that the Palestinians are living in hell is because the pointless blockade. The Palestinian Government offered a cease fire during the negotiations-which was rejected by Israel.

Snip

I'm not even going to bother arguing with you. You refuse to listen, calling anybody who disagrees with you terrorists and citing Israeli propaganda as "evidence"

[burningpet]

So don't. and since you just spouted a baseless argument, i don't have to listen to that OPINION. if you could give me FACTS that hamas has absolutely nothing to do with the suffering of the gazan people, or facts that israel has not answered peace with peace, then i will start listening to you. until then, yeah, don't bother.

http://www.unrwa.org//newsroom/press-releases/unrwa-condemns-placement-rockets-second-time-one-its-schools
Yet, another bunch of rockets found in UNRWA school. obviously, they had to withdraw from the premises, or, in other words, let hamas take the rockets before anyone could take pictures of those (which UNRWA still refuse to do. take pictures of rockets in their schools, that is)

Btw, Kerry announced yesterday that the US would give $45M to the palestinian people in gaza, 15M of it will go to UNRWA. an organization that is one of the most funded in the UN and that has officially listed hamas operative on its pay roll, as admitted by its own EX-President. an organization canada cut funding to while diverting to other far more objective organizations, because, as they say, they wanted to fund elements that thrive to keep democracy and prosperity in gaza. a move that cost it dearly in politics and before anyone jump and say it was an israeli pressure, than, no, israel actually opposed that move. allah only knows why.

[Phmcw]

No one in power have any interest in having peace so you won't see peace in the middle east. A clear ennemy allow politicians to do what they want and not be penalized, industrial to sell weapon and terrorist groups to prosper.

The only reason the cycle of war that plagued Europe for millenia since the fall of the Roman empire stopped is because the wars became unsustainable and too destructives. But right now, peoples and fortunes survive in the middle east just fine.

[Descan]

As I said before, the blockade may be for preventing Hamas from getting resources, but it has the effect of making the actual Palestinian people live in abject poverty. Plus, Hamas obviously has ways around the blockade. Thousands of rockets? Yeah, they get their material.

So you have an ineffective policy that is forcing Palestinians into poverty, who will then go on to support Hamas against the Israeli oppressor, and ALSO has the effect of enabling smuggling operations that Hamas can (as you yourself said) use to acquire mass amount of currency to feed their rocket attack program.

Tell me again why you're supporting the blockade?* It doesn't work as intended and it just makes Hamas more powerful, through support and through smuggling money.

*Your last post said "Pointless blockade" so perhaps you do not support it. However, other posts of yours have given the indication that you do support it, so which is it? I'm unsure now.

[burningpet]

Israeli war industry will always have its place because, evidently, the surrounding area is highly unstable.

While i do see your point and highly agree with it, i am not entirely convinced this is the situation in israel. (intentionally perpetuating war so the weapon industry could keep its wealth).

[Descan]

Just to be clear, when I said "Israeli oppressor" I mean from the point of view of the Palestinians in Gaza who go on to support Hamas.

[burningpet]

As I said before, the blockade may be for preventing Hamas from getting resources, but it has the effect of making the actual Palestinian people live in abject poverty. Plus, Hamas obviously has ways around the blockade. Thousands of rockets? Yeah, they get their material.

So you have an ineffective policy that is forcing Palestinians into poverty, who will then go on to support Hamas against the Israeli oppressor, and ALSO has the effect of enabling smuggling operations that Hamas can (as you yourself said) use to acquire mass amount of currency to feed their rocket attack program.

Tell me again why you're supporting the blockade?* It doesn't work as intended and it just makes Hamas more powerful, through support and through smuggling money.

*Your last post said "Pointless blockade" so perhaps you do not support it. However, other posts of yours have given the indication that you do support it, so which is it? I'm unsure now.

I have no doubt the blockade was a partial failure that also contributed to the suffering of the palestines, but i also have no doubt it did manage to stop A LOT of the weapons and funding Hamas tried to aquire, as proven by the steady decline of those coming into the strip when egypt closed its own rafah crossing and flooded the smuggling tunnels. i also have no doubt that  the blockade managed to stop a lot of terrorist operations against israeli civilians.

[XXSockXX]

For those few pro-Israel posters (Burningpet and Socks, but this is mostly for Socks), what do you think of people like Naftali Bennett?

I don't mind being called pro-Israel, but that doesn't mean I would defend everything Israeli governments do or everything Israelis say. I'm aware they have religious and/or nationalist nutjobs too.
If you read back what I wrote in this thread about the current conflict (it's not that much), you'll see that it mostly concerns stuff that happens here and misguided sympathies for Hamas, so I don't know why you'd think I would have an elaborate opinion on that guy (from looking him up, I don't agree with his positions).

[burningpet]

http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4548343,00.html

The foreign ministers of the european union have condemned the terrorists use of civilians as human shields and have called for an immediate disarming of all of the terror organizations in gaza.
http://ejpress.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=49892

They have also called for an immediate truce based on the terms achieved during operation "Pillar of Defense". a truce terms israel have already accepted multiple times now.

[Descan]

Can either of you point me to a post about, or even who said as much, support for Hamas instead of just "Killing Hamas won't fix the problem but getting rid of the causes for supporting Hamas will"? Because I don't know of anyone who's voiced support for Hamas in the entire thread, yet you keep saying things as if we all support Hamas.

[Phmcw]

I didn't say thqt everyone conspire for the war to last forever I said that no one have any interest for the war to stop. And thus, no one do anything to actually stop it.
 At the end of the day, the consensus among European politicians seems to be that no one of importance in Israel nor in Palestine want that war to stop, no one in the neighborhood actually care about Israel and those who pretend to do (in Egypt for instance) stop after any kind of bribe.

I think that the most important thing to understand about this conflict, is that it is completely unimportant to everyone, and until that change, it will go on forever.

[burningpet]

Can either of you point me to a post about, or even who said as much, support for Hamas instead of just "Killing Hamas won't fix the problem but getting rid of the causes for supporting Hamas will"? Because I don't know of anyone who's voiced support for Hamas in the entire thread, yet you keep saying things as if we all support Hamas.

Since hamas is the one generating the causes for supporting hamas, i don't see how that argument can be vaild. the only way to stop hamas and the causes for supporting it, is to either eradicate it or pacifiy it through extreme international pressures. that pressure should include boycotting qatar.

[Descan]

... Because we don't agree that Hamas is the only thing supporting Hamas?

We... We can disagree about something like that without it meaning that we are, all of us, gooey over Hamas, you know.

[Wolfhunter107]

I'd guess that a lot of people support Hamas because they see it as their only way to fight back against Israel.