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[Dutchling]

Turkish officials say they'll recognize an independent Kurdistan.

I wonder what the kurds in Turkey think about this...

They're probably assuming the worst. I doubt Turkey wants this for any other reason than having a nice place to dump their own Kurds.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

Turkish officials say they'll recognize an independent Kurdistan.

I wonder what the kurds in Turkey think about this...

They're probably assuming the worst. I doubt Turkey wants this for any other reason than having a nice place to dump their own Kurds.

I was going to say something along these lines. It's nice to see Erdogan so worried about the Kurd's self-governance.


I don't know why I said Turk's. My brain is terrible today. I thought it was June this morning.

[Dutchling]

This makes me wonder how the Kurds managed to not get Armenian'd during the World War I shenanigans. Were they just not as much of an annoyance back then?

Or maybe I'm just ignorant and they got fucked over too.

[smjjames]

If you let Hamas fight this way, you can't really complain about the high civilian death toll, though. It goes both ways.

Just how do you not let them fight that way? Take them to the international war crimes court?

[Sinistar]

Meanwhile, one Palestinian had been kidnapped only for his body to turn some times later, with signs of torture. And shit is kicking off even more in response.

Revenge attack or attemp to frame Israel, way to add fuel to fire, whoever did that. Damn. 

edit:
On a slightly lighter note - Big possibility Iranian fighter jets in Iraq flying along side those borrowed by America. To make things even more hilarious, those Su-25 are most probably the ones that used to belong to Iraq, but defected to Iran during First Gulf War.

... Why do now imagine Ahmadinejad sitting in some villa in some oasis in the middle of a desert, drinking non-alcoholic cocktail, sporting fancy sunglasses all the while an incredibly smug "just as planed" smile decorates his face? I know he left the political scene, but he was just that kind of troll to be totally capable of doing something like that.

[XXSockXX]

Turkish officials say they'll recognize an independent Kurdistan.

I wonder what the kurds in Turkey think about this...

They're probably assuming the worst. I doubt Turkey wants this for any other reason than having a nice place to dump their own Kurds.

Nah, but Turkey would rather accept a Kurdish state in Northern Iraq than having the Caliphate of Crazy as neighbours. Same reason the US and Iran have come slightly closer over this, it's the lesser evil.
Meanwhile the Kurdish authorities in Iraq themselves don't think they're ready for statehood yet, so it's just a possibility.

This makes me wonder how the Kurds managed to not get Armenian'd during the World War I shenanigans. Were they just not as much of an annoyance back then?

Or maybe I'm just ignorant and they got fucked over too.

For starters, the Kurds are mostly not Christians. They were repressed too, but not as much as the Greeks and Armenians, probably because they were thought of as easier to assimilate.

[smjjames]

Meanwhile, one Palestinian had been kidnapped only for his body to turn some times later, with signs of torture. And shit is kicking off even more in response.

Revenge attack or attemp to frame Israel, way to add fuel to fire, whoever did that. Damn. 

Hopefully that whole thing doesn't spiral out of control.

[Zangi]

If you let Hamas fight this way, you can't really complain about the high civilian death toll, though. It goes both ways.

Just how do you not let them fight that way? Take them to the international war crimes court?

How do you even expect them to fight?  It is the modern era, where if they had their own bases... away from civilians and what-not... well, them bases would have long been bombed to nothing or occupied years ago... with Hamas dead and gone.  (Or those people are long dead and gone and you got the current Hamas.)

Seriously, put yourself in their shoes.  How would Hamas, as an armed organization, survive against the military of a nation that has the training, experience and high tech equipment it has?
Its not like the terrain allows Hamas to hide in the deep jungle or whatever have you...
From a strategic point of view.  Hiding among civilians works.  Who cares if it is an international war crime if the organization has no other way of survival?  It is only a drop in the bucket.  Hamas is already labeled as a terrorist organization by the international community.  You do what you must.  For what you consider to be the greater good.

[Dutchling]

war crimes are okay if they make strategic sense

got it

[Sergarr]

You lost me at the part with "greater good" in it

I'm pretty sure their definition of "good" differs from mine

[burningpet]

Meanwhile, one Palestinian had been kidnapped only for his body to turn some times later, with signs of torture. And shit is kicking off even more in response.

Revenge attack or attemp to frame Israel, way to add fuel to fire, whoever did that. Damn. 

I really hope the police/General Security Service would catch the killers and put them behind bars for the rest of their lives. jews or muslim.

Israeli journalists are calling the government to remove the censorship from the investigation because they claim it will cool down the muslim violent riots that erupted.

the journalists said the israeli police was called to the same family house after an attempted kidnap of this teen younger brother two days ago. at location, the father told the police it was attempted by arabs and mentioned the car, which is the same type and color of the car which was used to kidnap his older brother. he refused to issue a formal complaint. the mother also admitted that the family has family feud with other families, although refused to believe the kidnapping was due to that feud. this family is known to the police due to criminal history of some of its members.

While this data imply it was personal and by people who knew the family, it might just be a coincidence or that it might be that the israeli religious nut cases targeted the same family for some reason.

[Descan]

Y'all are fucking morons if you think "Explaining why they do what they do" and "And therefore they are right in doing it" are the exact same thing. :V

[Dutchling]

Y'all are fucking morons if you think "Explaining why they do what they do" and "And therefore they are right in doing it" are the exact same thing. :V

At least the second one of those could potentially contribute to the discussion.

It's not like people are thinking they're doing it for their retirement funds.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

... Why do now imagine Ahmadinejad sitting in some villa in some oasis in the middle of a desert, drinking non-alcoholic cocktail, sporting fancy sunglasses all the while an incredibly smug "just as planed" smile decorates his face? I know he left the political scene, but he was just that kind of troll to be totally capable of doing something like that.

Who says it's non-alcoholic? Religious restrictions are for peasants, not Men Of True Character. It's why so many get in trouble when it comes out that they don't live by the devoutness that they'll kill others for not adhering to: a lot don't really believe it, the rest don't see it as applying to them.

[Helgoland]

Y'all are fucking morons if you think "Explaining why they do what they do" and "And therefore they are right in doing it" are the exact same thing. :V

Exactly. It makes perfect sense for Hamas to fight this way, and I would advise them to continue to reach their own goals, but the same thing goes for Israel's bombings of their meat shields - because that's what their Palestinian brethren are to them. As far as effectiveness goes, ethnic cleansings and disregard for civilian lives on a massive scale are the most sensible options in the middle east conflict right now. That doesn't make them morally superior, though.