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[burningpet]

Well, i initially seen it as an independent action that israel "took advantage of" by blaming hamas, but i am not entirely sure it wasn't actually hamas.

The "Experts" says that the behaviour of the kidnappers after the act resemble Hamas tactics and the two declared kidnappers are tied to hamas. but obviously they could just be scapegoats.

Another also, Israel recently prevented a planned kidnapping that was coordinated by a hamas prisoner in israeli jail as well as several other attempts in the recent year, so they had aspirations in kidnapping more israelis to negotiate (Gilad Shalit release deal was very politically profitable for hamas) and it was reported that the kidnappers, whether operating under hamas orders or not, were definitely assisted by hamas after the act (This was revealed by hamas sources to journalists, although, it could also just be a propaganda)

[Sheb]

Meanwhile, Israel kidnapped hundred of palestinians. Ooops, detained them, without trial.

[Sinistar]

The thing that bothers me is - why kidnap them now? I mean, with the reconciliation of Hamas and Fatah, why try risking the wrath of Israel right now? What would be the gain of this?

It could be Hamas would stage this kidnapping via proxy "non-Hamas-affiliated" jihadist group and use the usual routine of trying to extort those 3 for some jailed Palestinians. But I dunno, they would either have to risk linking the released people to themselves (if those jailed would have Hamas connection) or just demand release of some "unimportant" people.
And of course there's also the fact those teenagers are dead now. AND no group came out openly admitting they did it.

I've seen accusations of this being false flag operation by Israel, but meh, I do not think they would go so for just to accuse Hamas of being terrorist organization. My guess is some random extremist group kidnapped and killed them because they were Jews. Sad, but not entirely impossible.

[burningpet]

There are several theories.
1) Hamas didn't really want that unification happening because it feared Fatah overtaking gaza strip. (Unlikely because most experts predicted that hamas would actually take the west bank)
2) Hamas rogue operatives acted on their own because they didn't approve of the Unification. (Most likely)
3) Fatah feared it would lose the west bank due to the unification and needed a way out. (I would say that's a good motive, but too conspiracy theory)
4) Hamas corrupted leadership and affiliates were made millionaires for the tunnels smuggling industry and they can't have israel letting cargo enter freely.  this is also a conspiracy theory, but one that several ex-hamas operatives have stated. its profitable for them to be isolated.

Also, Hamas don't always claims responsibility..

[Sheb]

So do we have any element to link this to Hamas? I mean, it would make sense for the Israeli government to blame it on Hamas, seeing as they're not happy with the Palestinian getting together again.

[burningpet]

The supposed kidnappers are hamas operatives, the kidnapping and escaping were professionally executed and uncharacteristic of independent groups.

Also, it need to be understood that israel have prevented more than 60 kidnapping attempts, mostly coordinated by hamas, this last year alone. the fact one succeeded is very sad, but not surprising since hamas put most of its efforts in kidnapping israelis since its very politically profitable for them.

"as recently as April, Hamas Prime Minister in Gaza Isamil Haniyeh insisted that “abducting Israeli soldiers is a top priority on the agenda of Hamas and the Palestinian resistance.”
(http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=690269)

[alway]

There are several theories.
1) Hamas didn't really want that unification happening because it feared Fatah overtaking gaza strip. (Unlikely because most experts predicted that hamas would actually take the west bank)
2) Hamas rogue operatives acted on their own because they didn't approve of the Unification. (Most likely)
3) Fatah feared it would lose the west bank due to the unification and needed a way out. (I would say that's a good motive, but too conspiracy theory)
4) Hamas corrupted leadership and affiliates were made millionaires for the tunnels smuggling industry and they can't have israel letting cargo enter freely.  this is also a conspiracy theory, but one that several ex-hamas operatives have stated. its profitable for them to be isolated.

Also, Hamas don't always claims responsibility..

So what you're saying is, anyone trying to torpedo the peace process is doing the kidnappers' bidding.

[Sheb]

Apparently Hamas dismissed the accusations as propaganda. Also, Israel killed 5 Palestinians in the search operations, flattened at least two homes and that was before the air strikes on Gaza.

And yet, our Foreign Minister just made a declaration calling for the killer of the teenagers to  be brought to justice, without a word for the Palestinian victims. Double standard yay!

[burningpet]

Wait, Hamas dismissed it? then israel must be wrong. i mean, why believe the filthy evil israelis when the peaceful organization says he didn't do what he preached to do mere 2 months ago, and tried to do more than 60 times in the last year alone. nah, no chance hamas did it.

Hamas also dismisses the fact he is tormenting palestines lives, is a terrorist organization and is hiding active combatants in civilian homes, hospitals and ambulances and behind innocent children and women. thank allah i was personally there and saw it so i know its true.

And yes, palestines were killed during firefights with israeli forces and all hail the small difference of kidnapping and killing 3 innocent teenagers and getting killed while trying to fight israeli soldiers!

And yes, palestines were also killed during air strikes on the gaza strip (Although, show me the facts. from all we know, they may have been executed by hamas for not letting it shoot rockets from their homes, or were killed by palestines missiles. both happens a lot.) all hail the difference between a kidnap-murder and an unfortunate accident. all hail the difference between targeting civilian houses like what hamas does, and actively trying to avoid it.

(Hamas kills a baby, blames israel:
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2013/03/11/U-N-Corrects-Record-Palestinians-Not-Israelis-Killed-Infant-Son-Of-BBC-Journalist)

And yes, the homes of the killers and kidnappers were flattened. what do you expect? that israel wont retaliate? that it shouldn't discourage seeing kidnapping of israelis as profitable? That it should just send a formal complaint to the U.N?

I say lets plead the U.N to recognize ISIS caliphate.

[LordSlowpoke]

okay then

as long as we get to recognize the states that russia has made for itself, also sealand, i'll agree to isis. it's more your problem than mine anyway have fun later

can you write up a petition for me tia

[GlyphGryph]

And yes, palestines were killed during firefights with israeli forces and all hail the small difference of kidnapping and killing 3 innocent teenagers and getting killed while trying to fight israeli soldiers!

From what I understand, Isreal killed in their search: one 13-year-old, one mentally disabled man, and an elderly couple.

All innocents.

And yes, the homes of the killers and kidnappers were flattened. what do you expect? that israel wont retaliate? that it shouldn't discourage seeing kidnapping of israelis as profitable? That it should just send a formal complaint to the U.N?

I say lets plead the U.N to recognize ISIS caliphate.

Wait, do they actually know who the killers/kidnappers were? I was under the impression they still didn't.

[Sheb]

Maybe Hamas didi it, maybe it did not. Hard to tell, and I've not seen conclusive evidence either way.

Also, what GG said. Just because the IDF carries uniform doesn't mean they don't acts like terrorists some times.

[Zangi]

I'd think Hamas would be all over taking credit for kidnapping and killing some random Israelis.

Maybe some of its operatives did it on their own initiative, without the go ahead and/or communication with its uppers... (Which could likely be the case if Hamas is not taking credit and if the kidnapping was done how Hamas operatives would have done it.)

[Baffler]

okay then

as long as we get to recognize the states that russia has made for itself, also sealand, i'll agree to isis. it's more your problem than mine anyway have fun later

can you write up a petition for me tia

No, don't recognize Sealand! It's acutally sketchy as hell.

[LordSlowpoke]

you mean you don't want a data haven? something that the powers that be can't fuck with?

i say we don't recognize you good sir for you are not even a country what are you doing