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[MetalSlimeHunt]

Syria already went failed state before any of this happened. It's more of a symptom than a cause.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

And that's a reason not to support moderate opposition? Until they stop being moderate and turn to the extremes to survive?

[MetalSlimeHunt]

You're still going way off topic here. This isn't about who should be supported and when. It's about whether Assad torturing people is real news or not.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

I recall you being all about deposing Gaddafi, much similar in his methods and arguably less organized in repression of dissidents.

Firstly, Mubarak was an unfortunate necessity for trying to keep the Middle East together. The peace between Israel and Egypt is one of the most stabilizing elements in the region. Sadat was the intended keeper of that peace and his assassination could not have been foreseen. Breaking all that down to oust Mubarak would have killed the peace and lead to more wars between Israel and everyone else in the region. An internal overthrow was the only real way Mubarak could get gone without breaking the peace, and lo and behold that is what happened.

Secondly, no, Mubarak was a dictator but Gaddafi was off the fucking wall. Libya had been consistently recognized as one of the major areas of repression in the world alongside the likes of North Korea and Sudan before the revolution, Egypt by comparison was autocratic but basically livable.

Mubarak jailed dissidents, Gaddafi funded state terrorism. Mubarak censored people, Gaddafi ordered massacres. All bad, but I think you can see a divide in the level of bad.

What is different about this dictator? I know you hand-waved Mubaraks deposition because I guess it's your tendency to support authoritatian regimes if they're 'nice enough', I'm just curious what parameters you define when someone is 'bad enough to take out'.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Fuck it. I'm not going to bother with this if you refuse to even address the actual discussion.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

If one is surprising and the other is not I would like you to explain to me why.

I'd just like to mention a dictator in which you're not surprised is gassing opposition and executing rebels is arguably a much worse dictator. I'd sure love to live in Syria with the expectation of getting shot in the head for not supporting Assad's dynasty.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I'm not continuing this. You either don't understand or intentionally are misunderstanding the topic.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

(flaming removed)

[Owlbread]

If I remember correctly MSH and I share very similar views with respect to the Syrian conflict, supporting the FSA as the best of a bad bunch and also supporting the removal of Assad whenever possible. I would imagine we both share support for the Kurds and other minorities above all in this conflict.

I could of course be completely wrong, forgive me for speaking for you, MSH.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

I think we all agreed on the Kurds. That's another fun part, it's basically 4 factions in Syria. We out to be on-default supporting Kurdistan, but hey that's just my opinion, Turkey probably doesn't like that idea too much either.

[Owlbread]

To be fair though, as in all cases, I support a Federation of Syria/United States of Syria divided along similar (though more ethnic/national) lines to the way Syria was back when it was ruled by the French. You know - an Alawite State, Jabal Druze, Aleppo State, Damascus State but also the creation of a West Kurdistan State and so on.

I take the same approach to Iraq, Iran and most states in the Middle East.

[GlyphGryph]

Mictlantecuhtli,

You still haven't actually answered his question, that being - why is this particular thing significant? What does it actually change about the Assad situation? Why is it significant, and why is it news?

If you need some help here, I can help you out, I at least have some ideas on why it might be, but studiously avoiding responding to the actual question doesn't really get you anywhere, so I figure I'll give you at least the opportunity to try first.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

I consider all instances of dictatorships in this world to be news worthy. Especially when there is an ongoing civil war due to their treatment of citizenry. I never avoided that question. I'm curious why the Syrian civil war is specifically non-important.

[Descan]

Personally, I gathered that MSH meant more like "We all knew this was happening," with a mix of "War and police states are just prettified* torture and murder, this isn't new," rather than "I don't care about people being tortured to death."

*For certain definitions of prettified.

[Helgoland]

"We all knew this was happening", yeah, but now we can no longer push it back and pretend like it didn't happen. We can no longer say "The rebels are just as bad", we can no longer say "But at least Assad stands for a stable Syria". It is now crystal clear that Assad has crossed the moral event horizon and severed any connection to basic human decency, and we can no longer ignore that.

So yeah, it's not news, but it's newsworthy.