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[Helgoland]

If they last another couple decades, they're golden - once the oil has run out, Arab power will decrease, and Palestinians will become just one more displaced people that a few Western leftists have an unhealthy obsession with.

[Sheb]

I think GJ was refering to Arabs Israeli. Anyway, Israel wouldn't collapse if foreign support was cut. The surrounding Arabs countries aren't going to attack a country with nukes, and anyone who think Hamas is a threat to Israel's existence is an idiot. I actually think it's the best thing for Israel, as it might force them to get on building a Palestinian state strong and legitimate enough to rein in Hamas.

[Zangi]

In the long run, Israel is basically doomed demographically to end up becoming a Palestinian state if they don't take some sort of action. Even ignoring the One State Solution, the Palestinians in Israel are going to outnumber the Israelis eventually, and when that happens it won't matter how many nuclear weapons the Israelis have. Really, their present strategy has been to kill lots of Palestinians and use American foreign aid to prop themselves up. The US really never had any reason to back the Israelis, who only ever antagonize the Arabs and provoke them into aggressive against against both them and their allies.

I thought they were practicing eugenics on Palestinians?  Or was that some other place and people?  (Along with pushing many out of certain areas... while colonizing those places themselves.) 

[ChairmanPoo]

Yeah, I don't think they would collapse immediately, maybe sometime in the long run. They would face a lot more aggression from muslim militias though and they might end up doing something stupid with their nukes if they feel pressured to do so.

...so you're basically saying that Israel should be humored for pretty much the same reasons North Korea is being humored...

It's not actually a bad case, you know, but it showcases the sorry state of affairs in the world nowadays...

[Sheb]

I thought they were practicing eugenics on Palestinians?  Or was that some other place and people?  (Along with pushing many out of certain areas... while colonizing those places themselves.)

I don't know about eugenics, they were stories of Ethipian jews being forcibly sterilized though. The colonization bit is totally and utterly true though (Actually, you could argue it has been Israel's core business since its independence).

And I'm not afraid of Israel using nukes because Hamas launches a couple rockets over the border. Nukes make a terrible counter-insurgency weapon. They do make arab state think twice before attacking like they used to. Which is why it is in Israel interest to have a strong Palestinian state that can keep its militias in check. Israel's main problem is not strong Arabs state, it is weak Arab state. Just compare Israel's Egyptian and Lebanese borders...

[XXSockXX]

...so you're basically saying that Israel should be humored for pretty much the same reasons North Korea is being humored...

It's not actually a bad case, you know, but it showcases the sorry state of affairs in the world nowadays...

No, not really. I mean, I definitely agree on the sorry state of affairs part, but the Israel / Best Korea comparison seems quite unfitting. The nuclear option is just a last resort thing, but the West has some responsability for creating Israel in the first place and the religious/ethnic conflict is not going anywhere, either with a one state or two state solution. For all the bad things it's government does, Isreal is the only state whose mere existence is questioned permanently by a substantial part of the rest of the world. With NK the world would be pretty much content if they just were a bit nicer to their citizens and neighbours.
I have no idea how to resolve that and apparently nobody else has an idea either. Now with the whole region being much more unstable than 1 or 2 decades ago, it's only getting less likely to get resolved anytime soon.

[Just Some Guy]

And now there's a civil war in Iraq.

[Owlbread]

It never stopped, really.

I was appalled by media coverage of this though - think of the 100 Americans and 2,000 Iraqis that died during the capture of Fallujah during the Iraq War, only for it to fall in the first days of 2014, almost exactly 10 years later. I watched the BBC cover it in 20 seconds this morning then they just talked about house prices for 10 minutes.

Does anyone know exactly how many people died in 2013 in Iraq? It seemed like every single month around 50 people were getting blown up in bomb attacks.

[Guardian G.I.]

Does anyone know exactly how many people died in 2013 in Iraq? It seemed like every single month around 50 people were getting blown up in bomb attacks.

According to RT (which cites the United Nations), 8,868 people, including 7,818 civilians.

[burningpet]

I think GJ was refering to Arabs Israeli. Anyway, Israel wouldn't collapse if foreign support was cut. The surrounding Arabs countries aren't going to attack a country with nukes, and anyone who think Hamas is a threat to Israel's existence is an idiot. I actually think it's the best thing for Israel, as it might force them to get on building a Palestinian state strong and legitimate enough to rein in Hamas.

Israeli arabs are "losing" the demographic race in israel. As israeli arabs become more and more educated, they bring less and less average kids per family. sadly, israelis only win because of the religious people in israel aren't getting educated over time and they keep their practices of bringing an extremely high number of kids per family.

the way i see it, israel is going to be doomed not because of surrounding arabs, but mainly because we, the secular majority, are collapsing under the economic pressure of financing a disproportional army, a sector of arabs that don't pay taxes, a sector of religious who don't work, rely on government aid and because of financing settlements in the west bank.

Comparing israel to north korea is either a result of ignorance or racism. no sane, educated person would ever make that comparison. even concering nukes and what not. if you wanna act worried about nukes, worry about pakistan, worry about iran, worry about north korea, worry about india, but you can sleep peacefully over israel.

[10ebbor10]

It's pretty certain Israel has nukes, or the capability to construct them rapidly if needed. So do Pakistan, India and some others as well

[MetalSlimeHunt]

As long as a country does not have reason to believe they are facing imminent and total destruction, they are not likely to use nukes. Of the Nuclear Club, Israel is probably the most at risk of this happening. (North Korea is disqualified for sucking and being under the shadow of four or five different ABM systems.)

[Owlbread]

Perhaps given that Pakistan is experiencing insurgencies as we speak, they are at greater risk of at least being the source of a nuclear explosion at some point?

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Not likely. Both the Pakistani government and insurgency want Pakistan to still exist more-or-less whole after their Glorious Triumph. Israel, on the other hand, would see losing to the Arab states as being an existential threat.

[Owlbread]

I was referring to the conflict with India maybe escalating if India suddenly had to deal with a Taliban-like government in Pakistan.