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[10ebbor10]

Well, not only the Holocaust, during both World Wars, jewish bankers lended significant amount of money to both UK and US, which in return granted them Palestina (British mandate at the time).

[Sheb]

While it's obvious to any student of history why the west ended up supporting Israel as a counter to left-wing Arab nationalism, it's unclear whether it was a good deal and more and more certain that Israel is now a liability to the West more than anything else.

[XXSockXX]

While it's obvious to any student of history why the west ended up supporting Israel as a counter to left-wing Arab nationalism, it's unclear whether it was a good deal and more and more certain that Israel is now a liability to the West more than anything else.

That is true, it doesn't really help at all with the Middle Eastern mess, but it's like 70 years too late now. You can't give up on Israel now, that wouldn't be fair to the people living there today. Basically it's a "we broke it, we have to pay for it" situation.

[10ebbor10]

Sure we can give up on it now. The only reason why this situation hasn't been resolved yet is that the US is maintaining the status quo.

[XXSockXX]

Well, apart from that being ignoring our historical responsibilities, how do you think that would play out? Are Israelis supposed to all emigrate to the US or will they live happily ever after under Palestinian rule? It's not that easy, you can't make one injustice go away with another one. Human ability to live together peacefully is somewhat limited, you'd just reverse the polarity of the whole thing.

[LordSlowpoke]

you're making a lot of assumptions on this "their country will collapse the moment we stop supporting them" stuff

are you comfortable with making them

[MetalSlimeHunt]

My concern with dropping support for Israel is that it will only make things worse, and permanently sour relations with one of the only democratic societies in the Middle East. Not to mention that I have no doubt that Israel will try to burn everybody who has ever slighted them in nuclear fire if it looks like they're going to be conquered.

[XXSockXX]

Yeah, I don't think they would collapse immediately, maybe sometime in the long run. They would face a lot more aggression from muslim militias though and they might end up doing something stupid with their nukes if they feel pressured to do so.

[Il Palazzo]

Or, they would bend a bit politically. It's perfectly possible to solve issues by talking rather than nuking each other, as long as you're willing to make concessions. With US support, there is little need to do anything else than show everybody the finger.

[XXSockXX]

Bending a bit wouldn't do much, this is a conflict where neither side is likely to behave rationally in the slightest. Keeping the status quo seems - unfortunately - the best shot at something resembling stability.

[MonkeyHead]

In my fairly limited understanding of the complex geoploticis at play in the middle east, I really dont think Israel would ever nuke an arabic/muslim neighbour in the event of any conflict, unless the unlikley scenario of it being a retaliatory nuclear strike. They would have far too much to lose by doing so, and would stand to gain more by being the plucky wounded underdog being ganged up on rather than the playground bully.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

In my fairly limited understanding of the complex geoploticis at play in the middle east, I really dont think Israel would ever nuke an arabic/muslim neighbour in the event of any conflict, unless the unlikley scenario of it being a retaliatory nuclear strike. They would have far too much to lose by doing so, and would stand to gain more by being the plucky wounded underdog being ganged up on rather than the playground bully.

Ahem.

[MonkeyHead]

Meh, a hypothetical strategy  which is a best guess from analysists used as a last resort is hardly going to be thier first up play in any event.

[Helgoland]

Well, not only the Holocaust, during both World Wars, jewish bankers lended significant amount of money to both UK and US, which in return granted them Palestina (British mandate at the time).

Eeeeeh... Do you know the origin of the state of Jordania? Jordania, formerly called Trans-Jordania? Jordania, formerly called Trans-Jordania, formerly called 78% of Palestine?
And don't even get me started on Western opposition to the creation of the Israeli state, or the... less than nobe role of the British mandate forces before 1948.
Israel is used to not being supported. Hence their paranoia, their nuclear weapons and the Samson option, and my certainty that Israel would survive even if support was cut off tomorrow.

[GreatJustice]

In the long run, Israel is basically doomed demographically to end up becoming a Palestinian state if they don't take some sort of action. Even ignoring the One State Solution, the Palestinians in Israel are going to outnumber the Israelis eventually, and when that happens it won't matter how many nuclear weapons the Israelis have. Really, their present strategy has been to kill lots of Palestinians and use American foreign aid to prop themselves up. The US really never had any reason to back the Israelis, who only ever antagonize the Arabs and provoke them into aggressive against against both them and their allies.