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[Helgoland]

Isn't the UN pretty much irrelevant by now? Unable to act, it merely gives out some sort of semi-legitimation for military action... which when shit hits the fan isn't all that relevant. Anything to make the current status less sustainable should be a good thing, right?

[Culise]

Isn't the UN pretty much irrelevant by now? Unable to act, it merely gives out some sort of semi-legitimation for military action... which when shit hits the fan isn't all that relevant. Anything to make the current status less sustainable should be a good thing, right?

You're assuming the UN was ever supposed to be relevant in the manner you seem to be thinking of.  It is, and has always been, primarily intended as a forum for diplomacy and a tool for avoiding a conflagration similar to the previous two world wars that had been so fresh in people's memories when it was first formed.  It was not originally intended as a dispenser of justice, liberty, or all things fuzzy and good, but rather as a way to maintain a measure of First and Second World power in an era where decolonization was becoming an increasing issue, and also in order to keep conflicts, if not extinguished, then at least localized.  There's a reason that the theoretically-independent ICC, rather than the UN-affiliated ICJ, had to hear the case on Sudan and the Darfur; it's not the UN's job to play at paternalism. 

[MetalSlimeHunt]

So Pew did a poll about Muslims and Islamic extremism.

The results are very promising. Suicide bombing is condemned everywhere but the Palestinian territories, the big Islamist groups are unpopular, and support for secular and mixed law are rising over sharia.

[MonkeyHead]

This doesnt suprise me much. My opinion of fundies is that there arent many of them, but they should loud, while the moderate majority are usually silent.

[misko27]

This doesnt suprise me much. My opinion of fundies is that there arent many of them, but they should loud, while the moderate majority are usually silent.

Marginalization is key.

There will always be people on the fringes, the key is letting them play out their stupid without endangering people or giving them a voice.


So guys, appearantly there is now a actual movement to resolve the Syrian conflict, and the more extreme rebels have decided to declare themselves seperate from the banner of the Free Syrian Army. It seems increasingly likely the opposition will fracture into the Freedom Fighters and actual terrorists.

[10ebbor10]

Last thing I heard was that all actual rebel countries denounced their contacts with the UN or something.

[alway]

There will always be people on the fringes, the key is letting them play out their stupid without endangering people or giving them a voice.

Na, you want them to have just enough of a voice as to be a shining beacon of terrible, so as to engender a distaste for them among the general populace. Like Pat Robertson's claims about atheists causing hurricanes, or islamist claims of underdressed women causing earthquakes.

[Descan]

It's actually under-dressed atheists.

I am secretly purely responsible for Hurricane Sandy.

[Owlbread]

Well, it looks like Sudan is going to blow up. Street protests are popping up everywhere after the government decided to cut fuel subsidies, because they'd lost something like 75% of their oil revenue when South Sudan became independent. The protestors are numbering in the thousands but the police have already started using live ammunition, killing about 50 protestors. The protests have stopped being about the fuel and are now directed against the "killer" President Omar al-Bashir.

Al Jazeera is now calling it a new Arab spring.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Sudan is pretty exceptionally shitty, so the potential of this ending worse than it started is fairly low.

[Owlbread]

Al Jazeera had an interview with the Sudanese Information Minister. He was utterly shitting himself; trying to call the protestors "armed gangs" and "terrorists" and talking for about 5 minutes at a time over the interviewer, prattling and twittering away about stuff like that. It looks like the government really is worried about this.

It's interesting that in every country I've seen governments/establishments talk about "armed gangs", they're almost invariably trying to cover up some kind of terrible atrocity. Like the Syrian government trying to cover up its own brutality against protestors, or Turkish historians talking about the Armenian genocide. If you ever hear your government talking about "armed gangs", I advise you to emigrate as soon as you can.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

It's hardly surprising. "Armed gangs" are a convenient way to erase the civilian/combatant line almost completely, even more so than "terrorists".

[Owlbread]

When the word "terrorist" gets thrown around a lot as justification for draconian laws, perhaps it's ironic that the government is using fear in that case as a tactic to get what it wants.

[olemars]

Al Jazeera had an interview with the Sudanese Information Minister. He was utterly shitting himself; trying to call the protestors "armed gangs" and "terrorists" and talking for about 5 minutes at a time over the interviewer, prattling and twittering away about stuff like that. It looks like the government really is worried about this.

It's interesting that in every country I've seen governments/establishments talk about "armed gangs", they're almost invariably trying to cover up some kind of terrible atrocity. Like the Syrian government trying to cover up its own brutality against protestors, or Turkish historians talking about the Armenian genocide. If you ever hear your government talking about "armed gangs", I advise you to emigrate as soon as you can.

I'd say the time to emigrate is when the government appoints an information minister.

[Owlbread]

I'd say the time to emigrate is when the government appoints an information minister.

Funny you should say that...

Granted, it was wartime, but still.