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[ibot66]

Interestingly I was just linked an article claiming the opposite.

I would like to point to this article, as it was written by someone who claims to be a first hand source. It's actually pretty interesting.

[misko27]

Has anyone heard about how Egypt is doing? Anyone attempting to explain the army's behavior?

There was a article in the NY Times today about how the protests, which have continued despite the essential decapitation of the Muslim Brotherhood, have shown many signs of moving from Pro-Morsi, to Anti-Government, which is very significant indeed. It's just the whole Syria thing is pretty big too.

So Obama has announced he's waiting on Congress.

[Sheb]

Actually, some people have been arguing for a real war with Syria, with the aim to make the FSA victorious. But a missile strike is not a war, the costs are nowhere near similar (a few millions in cruise missiles).

The fact is that chemical weapon is one of the few example of a weapon being banned with success. Landmines and cluster bombs are getting there too, slowly. A few cruise missiles to keep things that way seems cheap and I hope that soon enough the day will come when a state installing landmines get cruise missiled too. I think Assad will be deterred, because the losses of materiel are not worth the tactical gain of using gas.

So yeah, honestly if the US Navy launched a Kickstarter for a strike on Syria, I'd back it up. I wonder what would be the amount needed to be able to write something on the cruise missile.

[misko27]

I'd back it up. I wonder what would be the amount needed to be able to write something on the cruise missile.

In 2011, it was estimated that a single Tomahawk cruise missile costs US$1,410,000.

[Sheb]

The study by the Institute for the Study of War cited ~700,000$ per Tomahawk.

[GlyphGryph]

Hey, I got an idea - if you really care about the Syrian people and the terrible things being done, what we (the international community) should do is accept and expedite the processing of Syrian refugees, providing them with places to live within our own borders and the support to rebuild in a place that isn't super-likely to get them and those they care about killed.

Sheb, has your country suggested a willingness to accept Syrian refugees, or to aid them in their escape from the warzone?

[Sheb]

Ahah, no, we're too busy expelling fully integrated foreigners that have been working and raising family here for years on technicalities. I would support it if we did though.

[Descan]

Governments are assholes. >_____________>








So Sayeth The Whale

[Helgoland]

When talking to Europeans, that's not really a fair question to ask - our stupid laws keep most of the refugees in Spain, Italy, Greece.
Instead of channeling them to the countries that can, you know, actually help them properly.

if you really care about the Syrian people and the terrible things being done, what we (the international community) should do is accept and expedite the processing of Syrian refugees

If we really care about people at all, we should see to it that they don't have to flee in the first place. Action in Syria is not only necessary because of the Syrians, but because of all others who would otherwise be killed casting off the shackles of tyranny. Sorry for the pathos, I get a bit... excited sometimes.

[PTTG??]

Well, look at Egypt. They threw off the shackles of tyranny, and then gleefully embraced the shackles of Thocracy. Then they changed their minds again and (by a narrow margin) seem to be accepting the shackles of a Junta.

Or Afganistan or Iraq. Yeah, a western coalition giving democracy to people in the middle east works soooooo well...

The only time people really seem to "get" democracy is when their many-dynasties old king gives it to them, or a secular revolution makes it. Neither of those look really likely in Syria right now.

[Hotfire90]

.

[misko27]

So Kerry says it was Sarin, proven by blood and hair samples from First Responders (unlike most attacks in Syria, gas lingers, and many first responders and reporters were killed), and Obama has the right to strike regardless of Congress.

he only time people really seem to "get" democracy is when their many-dynasties old king gives it to them, or a secular revolution makes it. Neither of those look really likely in Syria right now.

I don't know, what about, er, Mexico? They are apparently democratic. A struggling democracy, but that doesn't make it not count.

[PTTG??]

Well, there was the church-led revolt starting in the early 1800s, leading to thirty years of military dictatorship under Porfirio Diaz, followed by a chaotic period of civil war and assassination. La Reforma came in in the mid-1800s and made it secular, which happened to be when things started to settle down.

So, by that standard, I suppose that in forty or fifty years, Egypt and Syria will be as stable and secure as Mexico is today. Doesn't that sound nice?

[misko27]

Oh yeah and Egypt apparently is re-writing the Constitution to be Islamist free.

[ibot66]

That's pretty neat.
Admittedly I would totally be yelling for an armed intervention or something if it was the other way around so I may be a bit hypocritical.