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[XXSockXX]

Hmm, I thought that was more of a US thing.

I don't think I've ever seen a dead Dutch soldier being called a hero just because he died.

We do it all the time, though you mostly hear it in relation to the ones who survive and are crippled.

That must be a cultural thing. Calling a german soldier a hero would be mildly contoversial at least. I've never seen a "support the troops" bumper sticker, "soldiers are murderers" on the other hand...

[Scoops Novel]

Hmm, I thought that was more of a US thing.

I don't think I've ever seen a dead Dutch soldier being called a hero just because he died.

We do it all the time, though you mostly hear it in relation to the ones who survive and are crippled.

That must be a cultural thing. Calling a german soldier a hero would be mildly contoversial at least. I've never seen a "support the troops" bumper sticker, "soldiers are murderers" on the other hand...

Christ, i did not expect that. I thought this was fairly omnipresent.

[Dutchling]

Calling a soldier here a hero would just be, weird. I guess? What's he gonna save you from? The only thing soldiers do is peacekeeping missions and related stuff. NATO is supposed to do the protecting part

[XXSockXX]

Christ, i did not expect that. I thought this was fairly omnipresent.

Actually, when a german soldier dies in Afghanistan, there may be a state funeral, but it's often buried at the bottom of the news. The international missions (we're not calling it a war here) are very unpopular, as is the military in general. If afghan civilians are hurt or killed in a mission involving the german military, there's a huge outrage. Since they abolished the mandatory conscription in 2011, they are having trouble getting recruits. A lot of people think we should not participate even in peacekeeping missions or that we shouldn't have a military at all.

[Scoops Novel]

Huh. Outside the obvious, since when did this become common sentiment?

[Sheb]

As far as I know, it's been pretty long. Since the 60's I guess.

[Scoops Novel]

If it isn't the obvious, what triggered that? I'm surprised given the Berlin wall was still up.

[Flying Dice]

It's no coincidence that that attitude started emerging a decade or two after the end of WW2. It was less about the Cold War and more about the collective realization of where militarism had taken Germany. That's a pretty large generalization, of course, but it's more or less true. It's the same reason as why Germany tends to censor violent media the way the U.S. censors sexualized media.

[Leafsnail]

Where's the information on the sentencing of the soldiers?  The article suggests it hasn't been handed down yet.

[XXSockXX]

Huh. Outside the obvious, since when did this become common sentiment?

Very much because of the obvious. As a widespread sentiment I'd say since the 60s with the student revolution and related social changes since that time.
Political parties have usually been a bit more realistic about this (letting NATO do all the dirty work would be pretty hypocritical), but it was hard for some on the left, like the Green Party which originates from the peace movement, to accept that.
Still it could be argued that Schröder won the election in 2002 because he declared beforehand that Germany wouldn't participate in the 2. Iraq war, while the other candidate said something like "we need to keep all options", which painted him as a warmongerer.

I'm surprised given the Berlin wall was still up.

Actually that was important too. You would have had to shoot your own relatives behind the wall if the cold war had become hot. There was a huge fear until the late 80s that Germany would become a battlefield.

[Scoops Novel]

I know i can find links, but I'd still appreciate some second-hand information (and links ) on the "student revolution and related social changes".

[XXSockXX]

I know i can find links, but I'd still appreciate some second-hand information (and links ) on the "student revolution and related social changes".

I find it difficult to quickly find something that sums it up well in English.

This english wikipedia article is not that great: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_student_movement

This looks better: http://www.goethe.de/ges/pok/dos/dos/wdp/enindex.htm

The 68 movement's influence lasts till today in many areas, though many people involved with that are now retired. Many of my older teachers were 68ers, as were some members of Schröder's cabinet, our ex-foreign minister used to be in the urban guerilla and throw rocks at cops and our former minister for the interior was the lawyer of the RAF (not the Royal Air Force  ).

It is basically the start of many influential movements in Germany, the peace movement, feminism, the sexual revolution, the ecological movement, the anti-nuclear movement, anti-authoritarianism, all sorts of things.

[misko27]

So, given this thread has the word "Libya" in it, and the Politics thread is still surging violently, how about the recent anti-militia protests, and the fight between one of the militias (Libya's Shield) and the Protesters  leading to the running out of the militia (Leader in hiding), and the resignation of the Libyan Army Chief?


Seems important.

[XXSockXX]

You know, with floods, internal politics, EU politics, US politics, Turkey protests, Syrian civil war, some stuff in Egypt and other things going on - I have no clue what's going on in Libya right now despite following the news every day. Last thing I heard was some speculation that the country might break apart between the Cyrenaica and Tripolitania region.

[Scoops Novel]

Bump. I'd appreciate information on how much Bradley Manning affected the Arab Spring, as well.