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[Owlbread]

Vague history lesson.

Israel was not created by the British. The entire area was however, a British mandate. In order to procure loans from Jewish bankers, the British, and I think the USA too, promised that they could run to their beloved land. As said, it was done. However, the sudden influx of jews in Palestine caused problems, and the immigration was cancelled. Jews were not happy with this, and declared Independence, as the state of Israel.  Other islamitic nations didn't like the exile of Palestines, and then attacked, and lost spectaculary.

Then there's another war or 2, some uprisings, and now the wal. Which is quite a bit more impressive than the Berlin one, I must add.

The sheer extent to which our hands were in that biscuit tin means we may as well have drafted the bloody constitution. That's what I was going by anyway, and people were certainly thinking of their "little white Ulster" thing back when the Jewish immigration thing was beginning.

[penguinofhonor]

I can only imagine. No really, I can only imagine, Ghostery disables the comments for me.

I looked up Ghostery, really hoping for a program that hides awful comment sections. I was disappointed.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I can only imagine. No really, I can only imagine, Ghostery disables the comments for me.

I looked up Ghostery, really hoping for a program that hides awful comment sections. I was disappointed.

In practice, it does.

[misko27]

Vague history lesson.

Israel was not created by the British. The entire area was however, a British mandate. In order to procure loans from Jewish bankers, the British, and I think the USA too, promised that they could run to their beloved land. As said, it was done. However, the sudden influx of jews in Palestine caused problems, and the immigration was cancelled. Jews were not happy with this, and declared Independence, as the state of Israel.  Other islamitic nations didn't like the exile of Palestines, and then attacked, and lost spectaculary.

Then there's another war or 2, some uprisings, and now the wal. Which is quite a bit more impressive than the Berlin one, I must add.

The sheer extent to which our hands were in that biscuit tin means we may as well have drafted the bloody constitution. That's what I was going by anyway, and people were certainly thinking of their "little white Ulster" thing back when the Jewish immigration thing was beginning.

I hope you can keep your personal feelings, and comparisons of your own homeland, out of this. A single person's comment does not equal "people". I don't compare every damn thing to the various bombings of Serbia and cry for blood now do I? Because know this, I could, and I could get VERY upset.


Anyway, shall we continue?

I can only imagine. No really, I can only imagine, Ghostery disables the comments for me.

I looked up Ghostery, really hoping for a program that hides awful comment sections. I was disappointed.

In practice, it does.

I recall hearing that somewhere, in a Time Magazine article, but I don't remember what it is.

[Owlbread]

I hope you can keep your personal feelings, and comparisons of your own homeland, out of this. A single person's comment does not equal "people". I don't compare every damn thing to the various bombings of Serbia and cry for blood now do I? Because know this, I could, and I could get VERY upset.

No, I won't sir. I'm sorry if that offends you. If one of the gentlemen involved in the planning of what became the creation of Israel made deliberate comparisons between it and the creation of Northern Ireland (which is not my homeland), then I think it's relevant when we consider the overall "usefulness" of Israel to the West.

It's also a shame that you'd get very upset. I'm sure we could have interesting discussions.

[Dutchling]

Owlbread, no offense, but you seem to want to relate everything to either the independence of Scotland or something the evil English have ever done. Probably a slight exaggeration, but, to me, you come across in that way.

I'm not saying your Ulster comparison is not a valid one though, as I do not know enough of either Ireland or Israel to say so. Neither does this make me 'very upset'.

[Owlbread]

Owlbread, no offense, but you seem to want to relate everything to either the independence of Scotland or something the evil English have ever done. Probably a slight exaggeration, but, to me, you come across in that way.

I'm not saying your Ulster comparison is not a valid one though, as I do not know enough of either Ireland or Israel to say so. Neither does this make me 'very upset'.

I may appear that way, but if you had asked me I would have told you that I know that scores of Scottish military leaders and officials were involved in all the bad shit the British have done since its creation. It's got nothing to do with the English. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if the guy who called it a "little white Ulster" was Scottish. I know the guy the British government put into Northern Ireland to keep the natives down after the 1916 Rising had the surname "Maxwell", an unfortunate legacy of my country.

Arthur James Balfour, 1st Earl of Balfour was the Prime Minister from East Lothian in Scotland who drafted the Balfour Declaration of 1917, supporting the establishment of a Jewish homeland in Palestine.

[palsch]

The biggest problem with trying to relate a single anonymous (and impossible to source on the internet - this thread is now the top hit for "little white Ulster") comment on one British view of Israel's founding is that 1948 happened. Then 1956, 1967 and 1973. Pretending that modern Israel represents the wishful foreign policy vision of any non-Jewish, post-WWII Zionists is utterly bizarre.

[Owlbread]

The biggest problem with trying to relate a single anonymous (and impossible to source on the internet - this thread is now the top hit for "little white Ulster") comment on one British view of Israel's founding is that 1948 happened. Then 1956, 1967 and 1973. Pretending that modern Israel represents the wishful foreign policy vision of any non-Jewish, post-WWII Zionists is utterly bizarre.

I saw it on a youtube video a long time ago. I will try to find it. I believe it was in an obscure George Galloway video, and though he is inflammatory and a grand demagogue, he doesn't tend to lie.

I've searched for 10 minutes and it seems so obscure I'd have to dig even further. My advice to you is to ask him on his TalkSport program or something if you want a source.

[Sheb]

Anyway, as said before, a comment by an anonymous made back in 1948 is frankly not a prime source of information to discuss Israel now.

Funk, my point exactly: Israel is so toxic in the rest of the world just saying they're your ally is a problem. It used to be that the West was alone in supporting Israel

Spoiler: Map of countries recognizing Palestine as a state (click to show/hide)

Now, Europe is finally dumping the little pile of shit. Just look at the last vote in the UN about Palestine, it was Israel, the US and its dependencies against the rest of world. And the Czech Republic for some reason.

[Zangi]

Maybe the Syrian rebels are using Sarin gas...
Saying the same thing.

Now we get to watch McCain sputter and backpedal?

(Honestly, from the first presidential election, I thought McCain was not a crazy Republican propaganda speakerphone, time and time again though...)

[Scoops Novel]

Maybe the Syrian rebels are using Sarin gas...
Saying the same thing.

Now we get to watch McCain sputter and backpedal?

(Honestly, from the first presidential election, I thought McCain was not a crazy Republican propaganda speakerphone, time and time again though...)

Has the rebel power structure changed much from the disparate mess it was?

[misko27]

Maybe the Syrian rebels are using Sarin gas...
Saying the same thing.

Now we get to watch McCain sputter and backpedal?

(Honestly, from the first presidential election, I thought McCain was not a crazy Republican propaganda speakerphone, time and time again though...)

Has the rebel power structure changed much from the disparate mess it was?

I think so? Fact's on the ground are hard to prove, but the rebel's military wing seems to have a pretty big thing going.

[Sheb]

Also, some of the Islamists groups are pretty big and very organized.

[Nadaka]

Also, some of the Islamists groups are pretty big and very organized.

There seems to be the rumor flying around that the islamists among the rebels are getting a lot of support from al queda. While those seeking more general liberty have not been getting much support from the west.

The fear "what if we end up supporting the rebellion and it turns islamist?" seems to be headed towards "we didn't support the rebellion, so it turned islamist".