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Author Topic: Egypt and the world and Libya - Now without Ukraine!  (Read 376617 times)

misko27

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Re: Egypt and the world and Libya
« Reply #3915 on: March 05, 2013, 08:39:52 am »

When two ideas come into contact with one another, one will inevitably fall into a minority or even disuse. The stronger idea will automatically and naturally subvert and break apart the weaker ideology.

I'm all in favor of dialogue because I have no doubt that NKs Ideology will be utterly obliterated within decades. NK will become... well, just like SK. They may even become a whole Korea again, possibly. But NK as it exists today wouldn't withstand outside contact. If Kimmy wants to initiate that contact I say we let him.

Hell, offer him a summer home for letting us co-op his country! XD Muhahahahah
Wrong. When one idea is entrenched. It is a theory, just like in science. Also like in science, any good theory will explain all known evidence, with few if any unsatisfying holes. Eventually, evidence appears that damages this theory's credibility, but it does not collapse per se. It may alter itself in minor ways. It only becomes heavier, more cumbersome, until finally the wave of evidence it too much. At this point, a new theory shall either be formed, or chosed from the prevailing ones. This one MUST satisfy all known evidence to be legitimate.
 
Such is the march of ideology, such I the march of sceince, and such is the march of north korea. Eventually, enough shall leak from the outside that the idea shall be taken down.
 
Also, on-topic, http://apnews.myway.com/article/20130305/DA4QTUEG2.html Nkorea has restarted the Korean War. They are going to end the cease-fire. Not, good. Do you think this will mean actual fighting?
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Owlbread

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Re: Egypt and the world and Libya
« Reply #3916 on: March 05, 2013, 09:26:35 am »

I sincerely doubt there will be any actual fighting beyond another bombing of a South Korean island perhaps, or maybe a plane will get shot down or something or a ship sunk. I'm going to dismiss anything like that as sabre rattling until the first shots are fired.
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scriver

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Re: Egypt and the world and Libya
« Reply #3917 on: March 05, 2013, 10:19:40 am »

In addition. Korea still isn't in the Middle East or any related areas.
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Zangi

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Re: Egypt and the world and Libya
« Reply #3918 on: March 05, 2013, 10:37:02 am »

In addition. Korea still isn't in the Middle East or any related areas.
Its part of the world.  We've been throwing Best Korea here every now and then, cause who wants to make another thread for that and think it won't need to be necro'ed?
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Guardian G.I.

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Re: Egypt and the world and Libya
« Reply #3919 on: March 05, 2013, 11:20:53 am »

Also, on-topic, http://apnews.myway.com/article/20130305/DA4QTUEG2.html Nkorea has restarted the Korean War. They are going to end the cease-fire. Not, good. Do you think this will mean actual fighting?

As far as I know, the 1953 cease-fire treaty was declared null and void by North Korea at least once in the past few years.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2013, 11:22:45 am by Guardian G.I. »
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Duuvian

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Re: Egypt and the world and Libya
« Reply #3920 on: March 07, 2013, 12:36:41 am »

Though I'd have to read the text of the treaty again to be sure in this instance, cancelling a cease-fire is similar to saying "I'm now capable and willing to fire first if it is the better course for me" rather than saying "I'm going to shoot you so get ready to fight." The cease fire is "You and I both could really use some time to bury bodies or try diplomacy while re-arming."

That said, I wonder if Putin and by affiliation the Russian government figure into this. Now would be a most opportune time for Putin's crew to stir up some minor trouble somewhere for the US outside a foreign state the Russian leadership have tied themselves to most unfortunately. I'd reckon that they can influence chilly North Korea somehow and yet can pass off the problem to Chinese hands. One wonders in this realm of theory what the Chinese leaders would think about this theoretical threat of destabilization both local and global, and whether it would stir them to side with the ones who bring the scheming or the ones schemed upon; for siding with which is the greater threat to peace? An ambitious but arguably weaker neighbor or a strong alliance of mostly distant powers?

I hope the government that I live with will do what it reasonably can to reduce tensions in the Korean Peninsula area and keep attention focused on Syria, where I'm afraid the government of the United States of America simply is not living up to my expectations with it's current efforts. Is it true my government will not fight despite such low human cost to their own forces that they don't even have to send ground troops to stand for freedom? Do they wish the world to think it is because this war does not hold prospects of enriching already bloatedly wealthy soulless entities through occupation? I'd say a no fly zone would be most appropriate and long over due, even if it has to be done outside of the UN, though I recommend asking each individual UN member government in individual communications outside the UN whether or not they support an independant action no fly zone by willing nations to stop the open civil war in Syria.

Many people may say, what would keep them from instability after we leave? To quote one of the best cartoons in a cartoon to help explain the worry fueling American reticience; 'They fight, they fight! And fight and fight and fight! And fight and fight and fight and fight and fight!'  Not financial shenanigans like silly people with money think will work; but a promise, should the peace not hold, of an occupation process along the lines of the Iraq war except this time handled by it's willing neighbors in the region who would be obligated to enter and leave Syria only at the request of the Syrian populace, while in a given area should not enter until requested and stay only as long there be post election violence if that violence is not aimed at somehow keeping them there for nefarious reasons. The problem with that seems obvious to even my less than perfect knowledge of all things, not to mention those on the other side of the Earth: so many different sects in this and surrounding countries. Thereupon I perhaps admitably naively explain to you that this long term cross-sect multi-country occupation should never come to pass if the end result seemed worse for the Syrian people who would control that emergency process, barring someone outside with much influence in the world torpedoing it. The trick is that it would be impossible to bluff such a thing and most people would realize it. It's just plain a terrible alternative to a peaceful democracy... which they could have with slightly more effort down an alternate path. Seemingly the West is not terribly concerned that Islamists have won elections and thus it is hard to accuse them of installing puppets. That said I would hope the continuing instability regarding some of the Islamist governments would perhaps be a good reason to vote in a liberal. Then it's just a matter of hoping the Syrian people elect someone who feels that winning elections/obtaining power over others is less important than doing good that all humans can agree upon and setting a good example for other humans in similar situations in other democracies.... which of course is hit and miss it seems like sometimes all over the world but at least you have the option of attempting to influence the results as an individual through discourse (at least until it becomes something less of a democracy). My hope is that a free internet would make it more difficult to pervert the process of democracy while making it easier for people to communicate their issues to those who would be able to take action. This ability is something that was lacking in comparison the previous century and I would hope that upon resolution of the conflicts that stem from that previous age of humanity that in the coming centuries the internet is utilized by governments the world over to ensure that it's populace is both well educated, informed, and hopefully to be able to speak civilian to foreign civilian about their respective lives and thus able to make sensible decisions for the government to act upon.

I freely admit I probably don't have enough information to suggest the idea as it stands; but I figured I'd post a much less detailed skeleton of the idea how I'd go about it if I personally were in a position to influence the situation. I've probably missed or not taken into account something important so feel free to let me know of how this would not work. I simply figure if the options are fair elections or something much worse; that such a populace in a situation in which I feel sadness for them daily would gladly attempt elections even if there are those among them, leaders even, who would not see peace as their route through life.

Also I feel I should note that unless I say otherwise that if I use a term such as Russians or Chinese I solely mean the government of that respective location and not the people themselves as I am well aware the civilian populace, even the leader's supporters, are not to blame for the actions of the leadership once in position, having lived through 2000-2008 in America.

EDIT: Shortly after writing this I stumbled upon this welcome news:

Arab League offers Syria seat to opposition

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2013/03/201336162346497842.html

« Last Edit: March 07, 2013, 07:19:09 am by Duuvian »
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Karnewarrior

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Re: Egypt and the world and Libya
« Reply #3921 on: March 07, 2013, 01:00:52 pm »

That wall of text...
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vladris

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Re: Egypt and the world and Libya
« Reply #3922 on: March 08, 2013, 10:53:29 am »

People have rights to live,and no goverment can't take it from them.Yes,nice text (:
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Scoops Novel

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Re: Egypt and the world and Libya
« Reply #3923 on: March 08, 2013, 11:26:50 am »

I am glad you said can't.
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Re: Egypt and the world and Libya
« Reply #3924 on: March 08, 2013, 12:25:58 pm »

Looking forward to NKs leadership being wiped off the face of the earth by a zillion drones. On the other hand, I don't know if I even want the US to get involved. Maybe the ideal solution for the US is, we smart-bomb the top leadership, reinforce SK, and then let China take over the land. Sure, now we're neighbors with China. Big deal. We're neighbors with Russia too and nothing too bad has happened to Alaska.
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Zangi

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Re: Egypt and the world and Libya
« Reply #3925 on: March 08, 2013, 01:27:47 pm »

I don't think the US really wants to feed a few million poor uneducated people...  China probably isn't looking forward to it either.  But, it is a long term investment, so China probably has much more political will power to invest in it properly.  SK probably has the political will power, but not the economics.

In short, I opinionate that China will probably do better for NK then the US and its allies ever could if Best Korea does get annexed/puppetered by someone.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Egypt and the world and Libya
« Reply #3926 on: March 08, 2013, 01:52:46 pm »

China isn't going to take NK even if they were offered it.
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Owlbread

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Re: Egypt and the world and Libya
« Reply #3927 on: March 09, 2013, 06:51:28 am »

If North Korea goes under, the South will have to annex them. That's it. China annexing the North would be a catastrophe on so many levels, even if they are better placed to do it than the Americans or the South Koreans.

I would actually suggest creating a group of Socialists in the Koreas who would try to ensure that South Korea remains an autonomous semi-socialist region of a greater Korea to avoid the ugly, painful transition we saw in East Germany to Capitalism.

Also, I'm not sure if I agree with this talk of wiping NK's ladership off the face of the Earth, because that will mean the deaths of hundreds of thousands of North Korean citizens too. War with the North will be very costly.
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Sheb

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Re: Egypt and the world and Libya
« Reply #3928 on: March 09, 2013, 06:58:51 am »

Are Socialists your solutions to every single problems?


What I'm worried about is if the US and SK decide that with the North's growing ability to deploy nukes, it's time to act and will pre-emptively strike the artillery north of Seoul.

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Owlbread

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Re: Egypt and the world and Libya
« Reply #3929 on: March 09, 2013, 09:08:47 am »

Are Socialists your solutions to every single problems?


What I'm worried about is if the US and SK decide that with the North's growing ability to deploy nukes, it's time to act and will pre-emptively strike the artillery north of Seoul.

No, I just think they're relevant in this case considering what we're dealing with. But yes, I'm worried about that too. Any war is going to result in massive civilian casualties.

Here is something new:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-21723488

Uhuru Kenyatta has won the Kenyan presidential election.



This guy is bad news. I saw him in an interview on Al Jazeera a long time ago and I knew then he was just... bad news. Despite the bias of the interviewer, look at how Mr. Kenyatta handles it. Watch him very carefully and listen to him when he starts getting questioned on the human rights issues. He starts off inoffensively and articulately but keep watching, especially when he is questioned about standing trial. Try listening to the substance of what he's actually saying - or indeed, try to find the substance. The words don't really matter to him as long as they sound right - the words are just like musical notes used to get what he wants and create the right image and atmosphere. The way he shuts down the interviewer by speaking as slowly as possible for as long as possible is a big power display.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xwyoh6_talk-to-al-jazeera-uhuru-kenyatta-not-a-banana-republic_news#.UTtCxrRKTj4
« Last Edit: March 09, 2013, 09:17:55 am by Owlbread »
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