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[Owlbread]

Right, in English it's "Catalonia", completely different spelling there  . They might go for independance soon too, even before the Scots.

I would say they are far more likely to go for independence than us, but they will have a referendum at roughly the same time - 2014 or so. The question is whether or not they hold their referendum before ours. If the Catalans hold their referendum a month before and vote yes, I think that could help the yes vote a bit because people would see another region of a European country successfully voting for its independence. Precedence and normality are important for the simple and elderly folks (of which Scotland has an awful lot). If they vote no on the other hand, I'd say we'd be screwed even worse than if they hadn't voted at all.

[XXSockXX]

..and in Catalonian it's "Catalunya", and in Spanish "Cataluņa". The Basque spelling comes close with "Katalunia", but it's an odd choice. Gainera, ez dut uste Euskaraz hitz egiten duzu. 

Google translate is not very good with Basque, but yeah I'm not a native English speaker. "Katalonia" is a sort of german spelling (correct would be Katalonien), I get confused sometimes, I see I wrote Kroatia too, which should also have a C if I write in English (or be Kroatien in german). In German C is pronounced "tz" in many words, therefore the K. Looks odd, but sounds right to me .

I would say they are far more likely to go for independence than us, but they will have a referendum at roughly the same time - 2014 or so. The question is whether or not they hold their referendum before ours. If the Catalans hold their referendum a month before and vote yes, I think that could help the yes vote a bit because people would see another region of a European country successfully voting for its independence. Precedence and normality are important for the simple and elderly folks. If they vote no on the other hand, I'd say we'd be screwed even worse than if they hadn't voted at all.

I can't tell really. The media is panicking a bit because catalan independance would screw Spain up even more with the Euro crisis. Both Catalonia and Scotland could exist economically, the question is how that would affect Spain and the UK. It seems to me that while these independance movements are really old (they used to be independant after all), the idea to actually go through with it has become a lot more popular with the economic downturn in recent years. Same thing in Belgium.

[Owlbread]

I would say they are far more likely to go for independence than us, but they will have a referendum at roughly the same time - 2014 or so. The question is whether or not they hold their referendum before ours. If the Catalans hold their referendum a month before and vote yes, I think that could help the yes vote a bit because people would see another region of a European country successfully voting for its independence. Precedence and normality are important for the simple and elderly folks. If they vote no on the other hand, I'd say we'd be screwed even worse than if they hadn't voted at all.

I can't tell really. The media is panicking a bit because catalan independance would screw Spain up even more with the Euro crisis. Both Catalonia and Scotland could exist economically, the question is how that would affect Spain and the UK. It seems to me that while these independance movements are really old (they used to be independant after all), the idea to actually go through with it has become a lot more popular with the economic downturn in recent years. Same thing in Belgium.

Although the UK would lose access to most of their oil supplies, I'd say it wouldn't really affect them all that much. England is an economic powerhouse and, despite the financial crisis, still one of the biggest financial centres of the world. They even manufacture a fair amount of stuff down there, more than we do certainly. Tourism will also remain strong. In the future the rUK could also expand on renewable energy along the Welsh coastline (something Plaid Cymru are keen on), which would boost their energy output. I think though the biggest problems for them will be military: the relocation of their bloated and unnecessary nuclear defence system from Scotland to somewhere down South, and the reorganization of the army to make up for the installation of Scottish regiments from the British Army into a Scottish Defence Force and so forth. That will be very costly for them indeed, and although I'm not saying that Scottish regiments won't be able to fight in the British Army, there will be a lot of organizing to do there.

[XXSockXX]

Do you think the military would be that big an issue? The US still has troops and nuclear weapons in Germany, and I presume an independant Scotland would be a NATO member, so there might be less moving and organizing to do than it seems.
The oil is probably a bigger issue in the near future. Green energy is not working that well yet, we see that here currently and pay a lot for being test subjects in that regard.

[Owlbread]

Do you think the military would be that big an issue? The US still has troops and nuclear weapons in Germany, and I presume an independant Scotland would be a NATO member, so there might be less moving and organizing to do than it seems.
The oil is probably a bigger issue in the near future. Green energy is not working that well yet, we see that here currently and pay a lot for being test subjects in that regard.

You see, even though Scotland is going to be a NATO member (at least for the time-being, although clamour among independence supporters, including myself, is for leaving NATO) we would make nuclear weapons illegal/unconstitutional in Scotland. We'd be a non-nuclear member of NATO, like Norway. As a result, the British will have to relocate their Trident system from Faslane in Scotland to somewhere along the coast in England or Wales or NI. The majority of the oil shale resources in the UK have also been discovered in the North of England, so that may provide the rUK with oil resources. Whether or not it would be sufficient is the question.

[ChairmanPoo]

I've never been a nationalist, but I support the right to self-determination. I don't necessarily agree that it's a good idea, as in today's world the success or failure of your fledging nation will depend on the whims of financial capital (so it wouldn't in itself be a solution to today's problems. At best it would be removing the kleptocrats from the capital but stick with the local ones. I can understand their point, though, as the corruption in the central goverment and in certain regions is outrageous). However, I don't think it would be particularily damaging either (for the same reasons it is not a solution). And I'd very much have Region X as an independent (?) nation than whithin country Y's borders by force and repression.

[XXSockXX]

independent (?)

Another confusion on my part. In French there's an "a" in there, so I keep spelling it wrong.

[ChairmanPoo]

err, no, it was not a misspelling implication. I did not notice at least. I said "(?)" because I question how independent would any of the fledging nations really be.

[Zangi]

Would Best Korea fit in this thread too?  Cause I don't want to go and make a thread.

North Korea's social change, from patriarchy to matriarchy for the non-ruling class.

It is a pretty interesting perspective... if men became incapable of being the breadwinners for whatever reason, do you figure something similar to this would go down in Western nations?  Where many cultures and societies still give preference to male breadwinners?

[Owlbread]

Would Best Korea fit in this thread too?  Cause I don't want to go and make a thread.

North Korea's social change, from patriarchy to matriarchy for the non-ruling class.

It is a pretty interesting perspective... if men became incapable of being the breadwinners for whatever reason, do you figure something similar to this would go down in Western nations?  Where many cultures and societies still give preference to male breadwinners?

That is a very interesting article, and Best Korea does fit in here because the topic is so general.

[Scoops Novel]

Owlbread, why do the Scots want independence, beyond the obvious and in what strength? Do you agree?

[Karnewarrior]

Would Best Korea fit in this thread too?  Cause I don't want to go and make a thread.

North Korea's social change, from patriarchy to matriarchy for the non-ruling class.

It is a pretty interesting perspective... if men became incapable of being the breadwinners for whatever reason, do you figure something similar to this would go down in Western nations?  Where many cultures and societies still give preference to male breadwinners?

Jesus, NK should have collapsed ages ago. Other societies have rebelled long before this sort of stuff happens.

There's something else at work here.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

You see, even though Scotland is going to be a NATO member (at least for the time-being, although clamour among independence supporters, including myself, is for leaving NATO) we would make nuclear weapons illegal/unconstitutional in Scotland.

Ok, I know where you're coming from on independence (though I have no opinion on the matter) and nuclear disarmament, but why do you want Scotland to leave NATO? NATO's military might ensures the continued safety of the West. Nobody can move to attack any of us if we're all prepared to fight intrusions.

Jesus, NK should have collapsed ages ago. Other societies have rebelled long before this sort of stuff happens.

There's something else at work here.

It isn't that surprising. North Korea's cult of personality may not be as strong now, but you can't rebel if you have no food. Fighting takes energy. There is also the matter of all the meaningful resources of the state being channeled towards the military, meaning that the group that has to rebel is the weakest and the group they have to defeat is the strongest. The strange part of this is that in North Korea ever reforming would lead to increased rebellion instead of decreased rebellion, because people will actually be able to fight.

[RedKing]

There's also the issue of education/indoctrination. If you literally have no knowledge of the outside world save for what the state allows you...I've heard of more than one North Korean "elite" who nearly broke down when they visited China, because they were staggered by the wealth and prosperity of the outside world. Up until then, they honestly believed North Korea was a prosperous and strong country.

[SalmonGod]

Just look at how much Scientology is able to isolate and brainwash people right in the middle of highly populated areas in the U.S.  Now imagine Scientology as an independent nation.