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[Descan]

I think the only way peace talks would do -anything- is if Palestine was in a better position, either literally, such as a nuke (Oh science I hope they don't get a nuke, we have enough problems without a nuclear stand-off) or figuratively, such as recognition in the U.N.

As it is, Israel can just keep beating on Palestine and other countries have an excuse of "Oh, but they're not a country!" or some bullshit like that.

I wonder how many countries consider Palestine a country on their own initiative...

I wonder what the global "approval rating" of Israel vs Palestine is...

Pseudowoodo: Yeah, what Olemar sedz.

[Owlbread]

I think the only way peace talks would do -anything- is if Palestine was in a better position, either literally, such as a nuke (Oh science I hope they don't get a nuke, we have enough problems without a nuclear stand-off) or figuratively, such as recognition in the U.N.

As it is, Israel can just keep beating on Palestine and other countries have an excuse of "Oh, but they're not a country!" or some bullshit like that.

I wonder how many countries consider Palestine a country on their own initiative...

I wonder what the global "approval rating" of Israel vs Palestine is...

Pseudowoodo: Yeah, what Olemar sedz.

A Palestinian state was agreed long ago. It's just never come through. What we're dealing with here is that something that has already been agreed has not happened yet. Let's make sure that agreement is not broken.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

An agreement that has never been fulfilled is meaningless, especially if the parties to it are all trying to kill each other.

[Owlbread]

An agreement that has never been fulfilled is meaningless, especially if the parties to it are all trying to kill each other.

We need to make sure that it is fulfilled though. The reason why I'm talking about it is to make sure people know that it's not like Palestinian statehood was something only gaining real traction in recent years - it's part of an official agreement that was never followed through.

[Leafsnail]

The results!

138 yes, 9 against, 41 abstain.

[Nadaka]

The results!

138 yes, 9 against, 41 abstain.

Why don't I see any news about this?

[Leafsnail]

It happened within the last hour so not everywhere has been able to write stories yet.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20550864

I haven't been able to find a breakdown by countries yet.  I know the US, Canada and Israel voted against.

[olemars]

9 Nays were:
Canada, Czech Republic, Israel, Marshall Islands, Micronesia(that's an official country?), Nauru, Palau, Panama, United States.

Those bravely abstaining:
Albania, Andorra, Australia, Bahamas, Barbados, Bosnia, Bulgaria, Cameroon, Colombia, Croatia, DR Congo, Estonia, Fiji, Germany, Guatemala, Haiti, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Malawi, Monaco, Mongolia, Montenegro, Netherlands, Papua New Guinea, Paraguay, Poland, ROK (South Korea), Moldova, Romania, Rwanda, Samoa, San Marino, Singapore, Slovakia, Slovenia, FYROM, Togo, Tonga, UK, Vanuatu.

Rest of the world were ayes.
Wonder what so many contested countries and microstates have against others struggling for statehood.

[Dutchling]

Urgh, we abstained. Supposedly because the 'timing' wasn't right.
>.>

[Africa]

People keep talking about the Palestinians getting more 'status' in the UN = less of a chance for peace talks to work.  What are they smoking?

The way things have been going... since forever, with the self-sabotage and hardline stance of both Hamas and Israel...  I don't think they are ever going to ever come to agreeable terms as it is now.

Everyone in the Middle East knows (with varying levels of being willing to admit it to themselves or to the world) that peace talks are a joke and will never lead anywhere.

It's a useful fiction for the Israeli right-wing, though. Israel's government is run by far-right (read: expansionist, pro-settlement) parties, and they are perfectly happy with the status quo, wherein they can continue running Palestinians off bits of land in the West Bank, and controlling all the water from the aquifers under the West Bank, while having a cooperative PA help them prevent terrorist attacks. They can make gestures toward being interested in peace, while continuing to effectively annex more and more of the land that's supposed to be negotiated over, but never actually having to sign a deal that would require them to withdraw troops and/or settlers from that land.

But the idea of negotiations is, as you've noticed, nonsense. Not only because of how history has shown they don't work, but because of the power differential. The analogy I use is of slaves being told they can't be freed until they negotiate a settlement with their masters. It's idiotic because the masters have everything to lose, and the slaves have nothing to offer. You can't negotiate when the sides are so fundamentally unequal in terms of what each has and can give. And the main thing the PA can offer Israel is a non-hostile government that will do its best to prevent terrorism. Well guess what? Israel already has that - there's nothing else Abbas can offer them that would make any difference.

As for why the Western world buys into the fiction that a two-state solution is possible anymore or that peace talks are somehow useful or necessary, I have no clue. Anybody with a lick of sense can see that it's not the case and that the only people benefiting from it are Israeli rightists.

[olemars]

Germany was actually going to vote against but abstained instead, which is apparently causing some ruckus.

[Leafsnail]

Kindof.  It can also be to show you don't oppose the idea behind a motion but oppose the implementation of it (and want to gain some concessions in order to turn the abstention into a vote for).

[GlyphGryph]

Or that you actually support it, but your friends expect you not to, and you don't want to piss them off...

[scriver]

Huh, Switzerland voted for?

[Sheb]

Well, it seems the opposition is mostly made up of the US and small pacific islands states that are known to sell their vote to the highest bidders.
Germany has traditionally Israel's staunchest European supporter, so them abstaining is actually a step in the right direction.

Also, it's funny to see the Israeli backpedal on all the threats they made to the Palestinians. I hope the Palestinian do sue them in the ICC. At least they've got a bargaining chip now.

Also, if we need bilateral discussions before establishing a state, why don't we strip Israel from its UN membership?

Finally, from wiki, a map of the countries that recognize Palestine.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)