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[RedKing]

Admittedly, I kind of sympathize with them. They're trying to keep the shitstorm off the streets of Peshawar and Islamabad, because you know....not like we *need* any more reasons to kick Pakistan to the curb. A mob burning our embassy might just be the straw that broke the camel's back.

Surprised and disappointed to see this spread to places like Indonesia and Malaysia, which are usually more measured in their practice of Islam.

A letter from a scared actress.

I'm glad the FBI nabbed "Basile" before he could go into hiding or skip the country. Dude needs to be punished bigtime.

[ChairmanPoo]

Found out from a friend currently in Pakistan that the Pakistani government has blocked YouTube. All of it. On grounds of containing "indecent material". Apparently, they initially tried just blocking that video, but other people began reposting it, and it proliferated to the point where they just said, "Fuck it. Pull the plug."

I think Google did that, not the Pakistani goverment. At least they allegedly tried blocking the video in hotspot places, and maybe if it did not work they decided to go radical...

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I'm glad the FBI nabbed "Basile" before he could go into hiding or skip the country. Dude needs to be punished bigtime.

Uh, what? He's a shithead, but he didn't do anything illegal (except maybe breaking parole). We can't not stick to our values because of radicals in the undeveloped world.

[RedKing]

Found out from a friend currently in Pakistan that the Pakistani government has blocked YouTube. All of it. On grounds of containing "indecent material". Apparently, they initially tried just blocking that video, but other people began reposting it, and it proliferated to the point where they just said, "Fuck it. Pull the plug."

I think Google did that, not the Pakistani goverment. At least they allegedly tried blocking the video in hotspot places, and maybe if it did not work they decided to go radical...

No, the screenshot he sent me said it was being blocked by Pakistani Internet Authority, or something like that. He was just trying to access the main youtube.com page.

I'm glad the FBI nabbed "Basile" before he could go into hiding or skip the country. Dude needs to be punished bigtime.

Uh, what? He's a shithead, but he didn't do anything illegal (except maybe breaking parole). We can't not stick to our values because of radicals in the undeveloped world.

I'd say the entire business model for this movie was a scam. I'm sure the FBI is looking over the actors' "contracts" to see what exactly he was allowed to do with the footage. Plus, dude has a history of bank fraud, wire fraud, Internet fraud, tax evasion....if he goes to prison, it'll likely be for the financial stuff.

Plus, to me the whole damn thing is one big attempt to incite violence. I realize that the way we categorize this in this country is only if you're saying "Go kill those people!" but....I dunno. I'm not a fan of legal protection for trolling an entire subsection of humanity.

[SalmonGod]

Yeah... you know the whole thing about yelling "fire" in a crowded theater?

This is like tagging along with Ultra-Violent Anger Addicts Anonymous on a movie outing, then standing up in the middle of the film and yelling "Hey everyone!  The guy next to you said *something really insulting* about your mother!"... and then tossing a random bag of weapons into the middle of the crowd and running away laughing maniacally.

[ChairmanPoo]

Disgusting as I find this guy, I find it more abhorrent to bend our principles to the morals of a bunch of religious primitives thousands of km away. I don't think the "fire in a  crowded theatre" analogy sticks.  These bunch of morons could have stopped at any point and shrugged it away. It's not our fault that they didnt and I do not think that we should restrict freedom of expression in the media just because some angry stupid men might watch it and decide that it hurts their sensibilities.

[Leafsnail]

Isn't there something illegal about lying to the actors about the nature of the film?  It'd be one thing if they were all informed, but turning a bunch of people into figures of hatred without their knowledge is horrible.

[RedKing]

Not sure I like the analogy of Muslims as "Ultra-Violent Anger Addicts Anonymous". 
EDIT: Or "religious primitives". C'mon, guys...really?


I think of it like this: You have a friend who's basically a good guy. Gives to charity, likes to read, makes a hell of a good hummus. But he has a Berserk Button. Then you have this other guy who's kind of a dickish acquaintance, and he loves nothing so much as to come along and take a steaming shit all over that Berserk Button, so that he can say "Dude, that guy is MENTAL. Why do you hang out with him at all? Let's go get some brewskis and make camelfucker jokes about him."

[palsch]

Isn't there something illegal about lying to the actors about the nature of the film?  It'd be one thing if they were all informed, but turning a bunch of people into figures of hatred without their knowledge is horrible.

Contractual issue. I'd guess that their release forms were overly broad and allowed the use of the footage in any number of contexts. There are plenty of cases where similar films have been re-cut heavily (if not changed this drastically) before release, or where footage of an actor filmed for one film has been recycled in a completely unrelated one simply because their contract allowed such a usage.

Hell, there have been entire B-movie series created that way.

[ChairmanPoo]

Isn't there something illegal about lying to the actors about the nature of the film?  It'd be one thing if they were all informed, but turning a bunch of people into figures of hatred without their knowledge is horrible.

That's the one thing that pisses me off the most about the guy, tbh

Not sure I like the analogy of Muslims as "Ultra-Violent Anger Addicts Anonymous". 
EDIT: Or "religious primitives". C'mon, guys...really?

I was not implying that this applies to all muslims. Just like not all christians are abortion clinic snipers, not all muslims are angry-rioters-over-pieces-of-steaming-bs. I honestly don't think that western societies should bend to the whims of either group.

Edit: To put another example: here recently a fringe christian group tried to get a man tried for a short video he did in the eighties, "how to prepare a Christ roast". To be honest the video was every bit as retarded as the Mohammed one, but likewise, I find the idea of the man being on trial for doing it as ridiculous. And anathema to the values of free speech. (And yes, I am aware of the irony of using Anathema in this context)

I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty, than those attending too small a degree of it.
- Thomas Jefferson

And for the record I do regard a violent man willing to kill (an ambassador no less) over a video he saw on the net as stupid and primitive, regardless of his political and religious allegiances. I think it's not a far shot to regard such things as a litmus test for stupidity and primitiveness

[Karnewarrior]

This is spewing vitrolic hatred for no reason other than to piss off a third of humanity that has recently gotten more militant. It's a blatant attempt to start a war for no other reason than he can.

There certainly should be legal action against this kind of behavior. Free speech does not mean shit on other peoples belief systems, no matter how wrong you think they are.

I agree though they should try to let this go. They already have a reputation (unfortunate as it may be) for violence, they oughtn't add to that for something the west sees as "free Speech". Honestly, if people thought about how the other side sees it instead of only how they see it we could get a lot more done.

[ChairmanPoo]

There certainly should be legal action against this kind of behavior. Free speech does not mean shit on other peoples belief systems, no matter how wrong you think they are.

Yes it does. Free speech *must* cover freedom to offend. Otherwise, if anyone can call "foul" when he hears something he doesn't like and have the heretic punished, then it's not much of a freedom at all. This man did not make a call for violence, or anything else blatantly illegal. Instead, he made a retarded video, a bunch of people far away watched it, and, of their own volition, decided to get murderous about it.

Btw: I'm curious about one thing: by the same rule of thumb you apply above: do you think that the Church of Scientology was in the right in their legal battles against South Park, then? And that the people who took part at Chanology should get arrested?

[GlyphGryph]

a bunch of people far away watched it

Harharhar. Not likely. No more likely than the Christians that go (nonviolently, usually) whacko every time a new game/book/movie comes out have experienced what they are so pissed about.

[SalmonGod]

I wasn't trying to label muslims as anger addicts.  I was just trying to illustrate how very much this seems like an intentional attempt to create volatility.  There's a difference between expressing oneself and deliberately disrupting social harmony.  That is bad behavior, and discouraging that is not the same as bending to the will of radical islam.  Of course the response by radical islam is completely off the wall unacceptable.  That attitude also needs to change, and there is much public debate to be had there.  However, simple provocation is not fucking constructive, as evidenced by the people who have died because of it.  I'm sure someone will respond that the provocation didn't cause any death, only the response to it.  I stand firm in the belief that the provocation and the response deserve equal responsibility.

And yes, freedom to offend needs to be protected, because it can be used constructively -- but not when there is zero point behind it, as in offense simply for the sake of being offensive.

[RedKing]

That's what I'm saying, too.

Crazy Christian trolls: KNOCK THAT SHIT OFF. SERIOUSLY.
Angry Muslim knee-jerk rock throwers: STOP BEING SO EASY TO TROLL. SERIOUSLY.