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[Luke_Prowler]

He's a monster. He deserved to die.

inb4 bleeding hearts moaning over "the morality of our generation"

[SalmonGod]

I'm about as bleeding heart as it gets, and I'm saying nothing.  I don't think his death should be celebrated anymore than I think his bizarre character should be mourned (though marveled at, certainly).   An oppressed people have freed themselves, and that's all there is to it.

[webber]

He's a monster. He deserved to die.

Do you still see the world in black and white colors?

"GDP per person— 14 192 $.
Annual dotations per family member - 1 000 $
Unemployment compensation— 730 $.
Nurse`s salary— 1 000 $.
7 000 $ for every newborn baby.
64 000 $ for every newlyweds couple.
One-time aid to open private business - 20 000 $.
Major taxes and levies are prohibited.
Education and medicine are free.
Foreign education is paid by the state.
A network of markets with extremely low prices for families having many children.
A network of pharmacy shops with free medicaments.
Death penalty for counterfeiting of medicines.
No rent.
No electricity charges.
Interest-free loans for cars and houses. If you buy a car, the state will pay 50% of its price; 65% for soldiers.
Petrol is cheaper then the water: 0,14 $ for liter. "

This WAS Gaddafi`s Libya. Until NATO guys just came for some more oil.

Sorry for the lame translation. I should have gone to sleep long ago, but amounts of "LOL WE HEROICALLY DEFEATED ANOTHER SUPERVILLAIN" shit in this thread were too much to ignore.

[Bouchart]

[Tellemurius]

True, no matter how much a dick these guys are to human rights, they did provided more than what capitalist nations are doing right now. Hell i wouldn't mind living in Cuba, Castro a all right fellow. Note every guy that got in power was supported by people at some point and in return at least gave them their promises.

[Aqizzar]

Let's not all hang ourselves just yet, eh?  You know how Qaddafi's government was able to pay for all that stuff?  Oil.  He wasn't sitting on a giant pile of stuff paying for everything out of pocket, that's how pretty much every oil-fat population-thin government in the Middle East runs things.  And there's no reason to automatically assume that that's going to change.  NATO is going to some tremendous pains to set up at least the embryo of a democratic government that will still run its oil industry, and it's easy to think that the Libyan people will expect their new government to do all the stuff they liked about the old government.

Besides, that may be what the government reported policy numbers say, but if things were really that peachy, I wouldn't think the Libyans would have been so eager to topple the guy.

[Bouchart]

You know, Gadhafi never even became a general.  Sad.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

He's a monster. He deserved to die.

Do you still see the world in black and white colors?

[stuff that the average Libyan would never see removed]

This WAS Gaddafi`s Libya. Until NATO guys just came for some more oil.

Sorry for the lame translation. I should have gone to sleep long ago, but amounts of "LOL WE HEROICALLY DEFEATED ANOTHER SUPERVILLAIN" shit in this thread were too much to ignore.

True, no matter how much a dick these guys are to human rights, they did provided more than what capitalist nations are doing right now. Hell i wouldn't mind living in Cuba, Castro a all right fellow. Note every guy that got in power was supported by people at some point and in return at least gave them their promises.

Oh give me a break. Gaddafi and Castro both have executed untold numbers of people, and the former started bombing his own populace when it became clear how widespread the rebellion was. They aren't some wonderful saints of the people standing up against the big bad capitalists, they're autocratic mass murderers.

I'm going to lay this to rest now: NATO does not give a shit about Libya's oil. Before this whole thing started, Libya was producing a grand total of 960 barrels of oil for exportation to the US, per month. This is of the 350k total for monthly US oil imports. (Incidentally, the largest exporter of oil for the US remains our good friends up in Canada, who export 70,000 barrels per month.) Of course, that's just the US. The single largest importer of Libyan goods is Italy, but there are no numbers available for the Italian-Libyan oil trade.

[Aqizzar]

I'm going to lay this to rest now: NATO does not give a shit about Libya's oil. Before this whole thing started, Libya was producing a grand total of 960 barrels of oil for exportation to the US, per month. This is of the 350k total for monthly US oil imports. (Incidentally, the largest exporter of oil for the US remains our good friends up in Canada, who export 70,000 barrels per month.) Of course, that's just the US. The single largest importer of Libyan goods is Italy, but there are no numbers available for the Italian-Libyan oil trade.

To be extremely fair, he did accuse NATO, not America per se.  Most of Libya's exports went to Europe, I think they supplied like a quarter of France's oil, a third of Spain's.  Besides, oil being a global market, the status and production of every producing nation effects the price of a barrel of oil, no matter where each physical barrel actually travels.

Not that Qaddafi wasn't a brutally repressive psychopath, and the Libyan people essentially an afterthought in their own country.

[Zangi]

Heck, those seem to be nice benefits.  That probably figures to some of his more loyal supporters not wanting to lose a good thing like that.

Its more then likely that such benefits doesn't get everywhere...

[webber]

Oh give me a break. Gaddafi and Castro both have executed untold numbers of people, and the former started bombing his own populace when it became clear how widespread the rebellion was. They aren't some wonderful saints of the people standing up against the big bad capitalists, they're autocratic mass murderers.
I'm going to lay this to rest now: NATO does not give a shit about Libya's oil. Before this whole thing started, Libya was producing a grand total of 960 barrels of oil for exportation to the US, per month. This is of the 350k total for monthly US oil imports. (Incidentally, the largest exporter of oil for the US remains our good friends up in Canada, who export 70,000 barrels per month.) Of course, that's just the US. The single largest importer of Libyan goods is Italy, but there are no numbers available for the Italian-Libyan oil trade.

Gaddafi and Castro both have executed untold numbers of people
autocratic mass murderers

Lybia: 200-700 lives.
Iraq: 100-200 thousands.
Yugoslavia: ~500 lives.
Iraq-1991: ~2000 lives.

Oh yeah. NATO surely has the right to invade any country where oil interests holy duty of protecting the world from big bad dictators leads them.

stuff that the average Libyan would never see

Oh, what CNN/BBC says is the only truth in the world.
Have you ever tried getting the information from 2-5 independent, preferably hostile to each other, sources? Or even speaking with eyewitnesses, like I did?

started bombing his own populace when it became clear how widespread the rebellion was
The rebels officially confirm that they are being financed from foreigh sources. This is not a revolution. This is something like "proxy civil war". Without this support all discontent of Gadaffi`s goverment would have ended in this: a hundred or two of people are waving flags for two hours, then they get bored and leave, Gadaffi is strictly looking at them from a wall banner.

They aren't some wonderful saints
Nobody said they are. I`m just trying to show you that the whole operation was inhumane and violating all international standards, and everybody who supports it is either a very credulous person or a maniac.

[Luke_Prowler]

I can't really say I believe you. Not saying you're wrong, I'm sure you do have legitimate reasons to think that. But you don't seem to have any point to prove beyond tarring the Rebels and their supporters

[LordSlowpoke]

Well, this thread is once more on it's merry way to shitstorm valley. Let's just settle that both sides aren't (or weren't) some kind of magical heroes and call it a day? Because all that "NATO caused the civil war only because of oil/the gold denar/whatever else" stuff is starting to smell like a troll already.

[ChairmanPoo]

Yeah. Who cares at this point. Gaddafi was clearly deranged, and I have very high doubts as to the motives of both NATO and the rebels. Let's hope that the new Lybian goverment doesn't end up in a "meet the new boss. Same as the old boss" routine like in Egypt, and that NATO forces don't try to charge them for the cost of the intervention (as they often do).

[DJ]

Yugoslavia: ~500 lives.

Genocide denial?