Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Nadaka]

And who makes that decision on what to focus on? You are talking about the willing contributions of millions of people, each with their own opinions, priorities and preferences.

We already have a system that provides focused and guided local improvements with the contributions of the community as a whole, it is called welfare and social services. Because you can't herd cats, it is payed for by taxes rather than donations. It is far from perfect, but it helps.

[Aqizzar]

And just to add one more little heap against Pseudo - if you're complaining about the federal government pissing money into the wind to cure smallpox and such, bear in mind that foreign developmental aid accounts for less than a quarter of a percent of the federal budget.  (Food for thought, estimated numbers from 2008 put total private contributions to foreign charities at about half of that.)

Funnily enough, it's probably the only quarter of a percent of the budget that endears anyone on Earth to seeing Americans show up.

[warhammer651]

Guys, as much as I hate summing up my opinions with a single pic....

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Now then, Any new... news on lybia?

[Vector]

I object to pissing away resources to have a negligible impact on a population that is wholly irrelevant to the rest of the world, when the sum of those resources could meaningfully improve the lives of the poorest Americans, which effects everyone in the country. Improve education and healthcare, work to create jobs in impoverished areas, or create opportunities for people to leave those areas, and you have a larger educated workforce and consumer base, and you eliminate the kind of situation that damns generation after generation to poverty, breeding crime and decay. Focus on one problem at a time, starting with the ones that can actually be fixed.

I think your nationalism speaks loud enough for your opinions that you don't really need to say another word.

Yes, if we cared for no one but ourselves, then perhaps your point of view would be sensible.  On the other hand, the world does not end with you.

[Aqizzar]

Now then, Any new... news on lybia?

It's hard to get any kind of credible information out of Libya, since it's impossible to get journalists in there, but there's been some news.  Richard Engel managed to get into Benghazi from Egypt, and drove for a couple hundred miles without ever seeing a pro-government institution of any kind, but plenty of "rebel" checkpoints.

The nebulous opposition communication network claims they are now in total control of towns within 20 miles of Tripoli, and advancing down the roads.  Pro-Qaddafi militiamen in Tripoli have taken up residence around the Presidential Palace, and are supposedly firing at anything that moves.

Another aircraft tried to fly from Tripoli to bomb Benghazi, but crashed along the coast.  The head of the Libyan Justice Ministry resigned and fled the country after the news of the initial bombing attempt, and is now insisting to any reporter he can find that Qaddafi was personally involved in the planning and direction of the Lockerbie Bombing (probably never to be really known).

[olemars]

Another aircraft tried to fly from Tripoli to bomb Benghazi, but crashed along the coast.

Supposedly the pilot ejected on purpose.

There was also a libyan passenger plane trying to land on Malta, with either Gaddafi's daughter or a daughter-in-law on board. Malta refused them entry and they had to return to Tripoli.

[Sir Pseudonymous]

And who makes that decision on what to focus on? You are talking about the willing contributions of millions of people, each with their own opinions, priorities and preferences.

We already have a system that provides focused and guided local improvements with the contributions of the community as a whole, it is called welfare and social services. Because you can't herd cats, it is payed for by taxes rather than donations. It is far from perfect, but it helps.

It's also poorly funded, attacked at every turn, and constantly sabotaged by rightists who don't want the slightest drop being spent improving the lot of their own goddamn people.

I object to pissing away resources to have a negligible impact on a population that is wholly irrelevant to the rest of the world, when the sum of those resources could meaningfully improve the lives of the poorest Americans, which effects everyone in the country. Improve education and healthcare, work to create jobs in impoverished areas, or create opportunities for people to leave those areas, and you have a larger educated workforce and consumer base, and you eliminate the kind of situation that damns generation after generation to poverty, breeding crime and decay. Focus on one problem at a time, starting with the ones that can actually be fixed.

I think your nationalism speaks loud enough for your opinions that you don't really need to say another word.

Yes, if we cared for no one but ourselves, then perhaps your point of view would be sensible.  On the other hand, the world does not end with you.

If you did not go out of your way to learn about their plight, how would their lives affect you in the slightest? How does your knowing and thinking about their plight affect theirs at all? All I can see is a negative impact on you, worrying and feeling pain on behalf of people who don't even know you exist. Unless you sent some pittance to slightly improve the comfort of a single person, in which case you'd probably feel all great and special for deigning to sacrifice your hard earned couple of dollars when you didn't even have to, such a noble sacrifice!

[RedKing]

Yeah, looks like the entire East of Libya (incidentally, where most of the oil is) is under rebel control. And the rebels have taken control westward along the coast as far as Misrata, which is about 115mi (~180km) to the west of Tripoli.

He's lasted longer than I expected, in large part because the protestors in Tripoli were completely unarmed. Once the armed rebels from Benghazi (and the elements of the Army which have been defecting) reach Tripoli, that's when it gets super-ugly. It's nighttime there now, but if they don't encounter much pro-government resistance in Zlitan or Al-Khums, I'd expect them to press through the night and be on the outskirts of Tripoli by morning.


EDIT: Oh, and European governments appear to be primarily shitting themselves (esp. Italy) at the potential for a refugee problem of "Biblical proportions" if Qaddafi is toppled. Honestly, this makes no sense to me. I would think you'd see a bigger refugee problem if he somehow managed to stay in power, cause there's a hell of a lot of people whose collective asses would be toast. If Qaddafi falls, the only ones that need to flee are his cronies and possibly some of his tribe. And it looks like some of his family have already been trying to flee and been judged persona non grata in Turkey and Malta. Nobody wants to grab that hot potato.

[Vector]

If you did not go out of your way to learn about their plight, how would their lives affect you in the slightest? How does your knowing and thinking about their plight affect theirs at all? All I can see is a negative impact on you, worrying and feeling pain on behalf of people who don't even know you exist. Unless you sent some pittance to slightly improve the comfort of a single person, in which case you'd probably feel all great and special for deigning to sacrifice your hard earned couple of dollars when you didn't even have to, such a noble sacrifice!

Actually, I was strongly considering doing some Peace Corps work after I feel that I have done enough for my country and the people in it.  I thought I'd work on figuring out the system that isn't completely fucked before I worked on the delicate one that really needs help--at least I've been through this one, and have a reasonable idea of its issues.  Because, after all: what can one person do?  I believe the purpose of my life is to find out.

And no, I don't know how much good I'll do here.  I spent hundreds of hours in high school tutoring entitled brats, and watch rich kids laze their way through life daily.  Here, my teaching will just be a drop in the bucket.  Maybe a person or two will be motivated; who knows.  Over there, my expertise may actually mean something to someone who would have never had a chance, otherwise.

On the other hand, I was also considering Teach for America.  In all probability, I will try to do both.

Thanks for asking.

[Virex]

EDIT: Oh, and European governments appear to be primarily shitting themselves (esp. Italy) at the potential for a refugee problem of "Biblical proportions" if Qaddafi is toppled. Honestly, this makes no sense to me. I would think you'd see a bigger refugee problem if he somehow managed to stay in power, cause there's a hell of a lot of people whose collective asses would be toast. If Qaddafi falls, the only ones that need to flee are his cronies and possibly some of his tribe. And it looks like some of his family have already been trying to flee and been judged persona non grata in Turkey and Malta. Nobody wants to grab that hot potato.

That would be if everything would be fine after he's gone. With a country half-controlled by a crazed armed mob that isn't really a given now is it? I wouldn't be surprised if we see razzia's against suspected Quadaffi collaborators the coming months.

[Sir Pseudonymous]

If you did not go out of your way to learn about their plight, how would their lives affect you in the slightest? How does your knowing and thinking about their plight affect theirs at all? All I can see is a negative impact on you, worrying and feeling pain on behalf of people who don't even know you exist. Unless you sent some pittance to slightly improve the comfort of a single person, in which case you'd probably feel all great and special for deigning to sacrifice your hard earned couple of dollars when you didn't even have to, such a noble sacrifice!

Actually, I was strongly considering doing some Peace Corps work after I feel that I have done enough for my country and the people in it.  I thought I'd work on figuring out the system that isn't completely fucked before I worked on the delicate one that really needs help--at least I've been through this one, and have a reasonable idea of its issues.  Because, after all: what can one person do?  I believe the purpose of my life is to find out.

And no, I don't know how much good I'll do here.  I spent hundreds of hours in high school tutoring entitled brats, and watch rich kids laze their way through life daily.  Here, my teaching will just be a drop in the bucket.  Maybe a person or two will be motivated; who knows.  Over there, my expertise may actually mean something to someone who would have never had a chance, otherwise.

On the other hand, I was also considering Teach for America.  In all probability, I will try to do both.

Thanks for asking.

You're studying calculus, aren't you? Surely you must brilliant enough that you could do much more good doing something other than trying to teach children math you'd probably mastered before you were even their age? People who are skilled in higher math are far fewer and farther between than people who can teach basic math; even doing something that didn't directly help others you'd probably have enough disposable income to fund several teachers able to teach basic math, while having a higher standard of living yourself to boot.

EDIT: Oh, and European governments appear to be primarily shitting themselves (esp. Italy) at the potential for a refugee problem of "Biblical proportions" if Qaddafi is toppled. Honestly, this makes no sense to me. I would think you'd see a bigger refugee problem if he somehow managed to stay in power, cause there's a hell of a lot of people whose collective asses would be toast. If Qaddafi falls, the only ones that need to flee are his cronies and possibly some of his tribe. And it looks like some of his family have already been trying to flee and been judged persona non grata in Turkey and Malta. Nobody wants to grab that hot potato.

If he stays in power it means that anyone who would flee is dead. If he falls, then people will no longer have his forces keeping them there, and will see the writing on the wall and flee to avoid the bloody anarchy that will follow in the power vacuum. Most politicians are first and foremost pragmatists, and will at least put the bloodier things out of mind, pretending they don't happen, so it makes perfect sense for them to hold such sentiments.

Really, it seems a bit extreme to me to condemn his family to death over his current bout of batshit insanity. Qaddafi is the one who sicked the military on the people, but you can bet that everyone even slightly related to him will swing by the neck, regardless of their role or lack thereof.

[Aqizzar]

Surely you must brilliant enough that you could do much more good doing something other than trying to teach children math you'd probably mastered before you were even their age? People who are skilled in higher math are far fewer and farther between than people who can teach basic math; even doing something that didn't directly help others you'd probably have enough disposable income to fund several teachers able to teach basic math, while having a higher standard of living yourself to boot.

Are you... actually trying to tell Vector that, hey, those kids aren't as smart as you and are never going to be, so there's much better things you can do with your time than trying to teach them math skills?  After all that chestthumping not ten posts ago about how the best thing to do for the world is spread a real education to impoverished areas?  Seriously, dude, what the Hell is your problem?

[Sir Pseudonymous]

Surely you must brilliant enough that you could do much more good doing something other than trying to teach children math you'd probably mastered before you were even their age? People who are skilled in higher math are far fewer and farther between than people who can teach basic math; even doing something that didn't directly help others you'd probably have enough disposable income to fund several teachers able to teach basic math, while having a higher standard of living yourself to boot.

Are you... actually trying to tell Vector that, hey, those kids aren't as smart as you and are never going to be, so there's much better things you can do with your time than trying to teach them math skills?  After all that chestthumping not ten posts ago about how the best thing to do for the world is spread a real education to impoverished areas?  Seriously, dude, what the Hell is your problem?

No. I'm saying that someone with such high qualifications can do much greater things. You don't need to be able to do calculus to teach a child arithmetic, and there are far more people able to teach the latter than do the former.

[RedKing]

Let me guess: you also think the public education system is terrible, and we have too many mediocre teachers?

And if so, do you see the irony?

[olemars]

Surely you must brilliant enough that you could do much more good doing something other than trying to teach children math you'd probably mastered before you were even their age? People who are skilled in higher math are far fewer and farther between than people who can teach basic math; even doing something that didn't directly help others you'd probably have enough disposable income to fund several teachers able to teach basic math, while having a higher standard of living yourself to boot.

Are you... actually trying to tell Vector that, hey, those kids aren't as smart as you and are never going to be, so there's much better things you can do with your time than trying to teach them math skills?  After all that chestthumping not ten posts ago about how the best thing to do for the world is spread a real education to impoverished areas?  Seriously, dude, what the Hell is your problem?

No. I'm saying that someone with such high qualifications can do much greater things. You don't need to be able to do calculus to teach a child arithmetic, and there are far more people able to teach the latter than do the former.

Heaven forbid that people should do what they want to do. They should only do tasks fitting their skill sets.