Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Max White]

Give me 1000 incredibly patriotic people and I can make communism work.

I give you... Vietnam! Now have fun trying to defend your country from the 100,000 incredibly patriotic people from another nation.

[GamerKnight]

Nope. They are a way of life. 'Freedom' is most definitely subjective. Go ask 10 people what freedom means to them. Guarantee you will get at least 5 different answers. (And no being arseholes and posting 10 identical answers on this thread, guys.)

Communism led by decent, altruistic person instead of a sociopath. That is all I have to say.

Go ask 10 people what evolution is, guarantee about 9/10 people will be wrong. Inabilty of the public to reflext on a topic does not reflect the propertys of a topic.

No. Some people will say that it is the freedom to vote, others will say it is the freedom to make art, to worship your own religion, etc. It is all subjective.

Give me 1000 incredibly patriotic people and I can make communism work.

I give you... Vietnam! Now have fun trying to defend your country from the 100,000 incredibly patriotic people from another nation.

Bring it on.

[Max White]

Nope. They are a way of life. 'Freedom' is most definitely subjective. Go ask 10 people what freedom means to them. Guarantee you will get at least 5 different answers. (And no being arseholes and posting 10 identical answers on this thread, guys.)

Communism led by decent, altruistic person instead of a sociopath. That is all I have to say.

Go ask 10 people what evolution is, guarantee about 9/10 people will be wrong. Inabilty of the public to reflext on a topic does not reflect the propertys of a topic.

No. Some people will say that it is the freedom to vote, others will say it is the freedom to make art, to worship your own religion, etc. It is all subjective.

Did you even listen to what I said?
Just because people can't agree on an answer, does not make something subjective.

[GamerKnight]

Okay. Then what is freedom? It should literally mean no rules. Anarchy.

[Darvi]

Okay. Then what is freedom? It should literally mean no rules. Anarchy.

I just wanted to say that. IMO Anarchy would be the best kind of government (or lack thereof), provided that people are perfectly nice and would cooperate and wouldn't disagree with each other etc etc. Which unfortunately is impossible.

[GamerKnight]

Freedom is bad.

[SalmonGod]

Okay. Then what is freedom? It should literally mean no rules. Anarchy.

True freedom is an illusion.

The typical response to your statement is that without restraints on people's behavior, they tend to harm one another and actually end up imposing greater restrictions on each other's freedoms.

My response is that the greater one's freedom, the greater one's responsibility to social awareness and judgement.

Of course responsibility is the act of imposing limitations on oneself, which is a negation of freedom in a strong sense.  Of course I'd say at least one is freely choosing those limitations according to personal judgement.  But still, the concept of freedom is not a simple one.

[GamerKnight]

Okay. Thank you. It's just that I get so mad when I hear all that US of A bullshit. They are not the greatest country in the world, they never were and never will be. They remain the most evil country, as they are the only country that has used nukes in anger.

[Darvi]

I'm quite sure that mordor is even more evil, and would freely use nukes if they had them. [/snark]

No seriously, it's not Utopia from what I've heard, but there's worse.

[Sowelu]

True freedom is always being able to get what you want.  It's kind of like anarchy, if there were no other people interfering with you doing what you wanted.  (And they will.)  If there were no other people though, there's other things you couldn't do.  Like, no university to learn from.  No potential mates to court.  Stuff like that.

For some forms of freedom, you can do things fine on your own, you just need others to not interfere.  For other forms of freedom, you need others' cooperation.  Funny how it all boils down to this:  "Being a dick to someone infringes on their freedom.  Being generous to someone increases their freedom."

They remain the most evil country, as they are the only country that has used nukes in anger.

In anger?  They used them to end a war.  The war with Japan would have taken many more lives--military and civilian--without nukes being used.  They used them to cut their losses, yeah, but it wasn't so bad on the other guys either...solely compared to what an even longer war would have been.

[GamerKnight]

They killed thousands, then cut off Japan's balls. No other country has ever done anything so evil.

[Darvi]

I'm just gonna play the devil's advocate and link here.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

They are not the greatest country in the world, they never were and never will be.

That's subjective. Greatness depends on the wants of an individual in their government. Some nations fit the wishes of some people, others fit the needs of other people.

They remain the most evil country, as they are the only country that has used nukes in anger.

An extended ground war with mainland Japan probably would have claimed many more lives. Regardless, the past is the past, and the debate over the morality of nuking Hiroshima and Nagasaki will never die.

They killed thousands, then cut off Japan's balls.

It was a war, GamerKnight.

No other country has ever done anything so evil.

You don't say?

[PTTG??]

I maintain that the first nuke saved lives on both sides by forcing the Japanese government to surrender; if not for that, there most likely would have been a ground invasion that would have made Normandy look like a beach party, and an occupation most likely lasting to the present day.

The Nagasaki bomb, however, may have been unwarrented, as it seemed that the Japanese were already in the process of surrendering. It is true that the US is the only nation to intentionally kill anyone with nuclear weapons. This unique historical position is not without serious meaning. The first bomb, however, quite possibly saved lives.

[Nadaka]

Okay. Thank you. It's just that I get so mad when I hear all that US of A bullshit. They are not the greatest country in the world, they never were and never will be. They remain the most evil country, as they are the only country that has used nukes in anger.

Learn some history. Japan had a state religion deifying the emperor. An emperor who called on every man woman and child to give their lives for his honor. In cases where American troops overran Japanese civilian populations, they found that most of those who didn't kill themselves by sword rushing machine guns, killed themselves and their women and children with old fashioned murder-suicide.

The inevitable and necessary invasion of the Japanese mainland would have cost tens of millions of Japanese lives. Nagasaki, Hiroshima and the firebomb raids prevented that horror.