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[Sir Pseudonymous]

I spent most of last evening setting up VPNs and Twitter/Facebook proxies to enable communication among people in areas where the sites themselves are being blocked. Now that the lines have been directly cut, there are people closer to the area who are setting up (donated, mostly) wireless infrastructure (microwave mesh networking), that sort of thing. The idiots DDoSing meaningless websites are nitwits.

So you're trying to help violent revolutionaries overthrow a legitimate if unsavory government? And you are proud of this?

Those "revolutionaries" aren't the ones opening fire on crowds of people. They're also not the ones who just refused international oversight over an election where the ruling party, who happened to also be running the elections, happened to come home with 95% of the vote. The claim that Mubarak's government is legitimate cannot be substantiated.

The people are the sovereign entity that are due free speech, expression, and self-administration. Not the dictatorship that currently controls the country. So, yeah, I am proud of it. Mubarak is swine.

They're hurling molotovs and torching cars. Certainly sounds violent to me.

A government that has stood for decades has far more legitimacy than a bunch of rioters, whatever your idealism says.

[alway]

More violent than the hundreds injured, 5+ dead in Cairo and 11 dead in Suez?

[Virex]

The biggest problem with supporting the protesters is that I'm pretty sure at one point the Muslim Brotherhood will come along and seize control of the country and the last thing we need is a second 6-day war, because this time there's a fair chance Israel is going to turn into a nuclear crater.

[lemon10]

The biggest problem with supporting the protesters is that I'm pretty sure at one point the Muslim Brotherhood will come along and seize control of the country and the last thing we need is a second 6-day war, because this time there's a fair chance Israel is going to turn into a nuclear crater.

Isreal turning into a nuclear crater wouldn't be the real problem . The real problem would be the whole middle east turning into a nuclear crater.

I spent most of last evening setting up VPNs and Twitter/Facebook proxies to enable communication among people in areas where the sites themselves are being blocked. Now that the lines have been directly cut, there are people closer to the area who are setting up (donated, mostly) wireless infrastructure (microwave mesh networking), that sort of thing. The idiots DDoSing meaningless websites are nitwits.

So you're trying to help violent revolutionaries overthrow a legitimate if unsavory government? And you are proud of this?

Those "revolutionaries" aren't the ones opening fire on crowds of people. They're also not the ones who just refused international oversight over an election where the ruling party, who happened to also be running the elections, happened to come home with 95% of the vote. The claim that Mubarak's government is legitimate cannot be substantiated.
The people are the sovereign entity that are due free speech, expression, and self-administration. Not the dictatorship that currently controls the country. So, yeah, I am proud of it. Mubarak is swine.

They're hurling molotovs and torching cars. Certainly sounds violent to me.
A government that has stood for decades has far more legitimacy than a bunch of rioters, whatever your idealism says.

Its not just a bunch of rioters, its basically the whole political and social spectrum, from the muslim brotherhood (crazy far right) to socialists (far left). It still isn't quite as large as tunisian revolution yet, but it is still the whole country trying to kick him out.

[Phmcw]

Pseudo??? What are you talking about?
That is not a bunch of rioter, that is massive country wide protest.
Molotov cocktail are pretty mild in this case, given that police fired in the crowd.
The 400 wounded I refereed to are related to a single incident.
The Egyptian poeple are overthrowing their government because they can't stand it anymore.

The biggest problem with supporting the protesters is that I'm pretty sure at one point the Muslim Brotherhood will come along and seize control of the country and the last thing we need is a second 6-day war, because this time there's a fair chance Israel is going to turn into a nuclear crater.

Ha yes, the good old excuse to repress any democratic movement in the Arabs states.

[Blank Expression]

They're hurling molotovs and torching cars. Certainly sounds violent to me.

A government that has stood for decades has far more legitimacy than a bunch of rioters, whatever your idealism says.

You know what government stood for two decades? The Third fucking Reich. And save your "hurr Godwin!!11" shit. That you would even begin to suggest that a government that routinely falsifies elections and then cracks down on dissidents with physical violence is "legitimate," when the people who actually have to live there are telling them in fairly unambiguous terms to GTFO, is beyond the pale. Hell, not even the military is on Mubarak's side.

Calling them "rioters" is tantamount to equating it to the frigging Rodney King riots or something that, in the grand scheme of things, is a fairly minor spat--no matter how bad it may appear at the time. These aren't riots because people want to steal a few TVs. This is concentrated, near-universal agreement among the Egyptian people that Mubarak needs to go. You're a contrarian for the sake of being a contrarian and if you want to continue this insane assertion, you'd best actually back them up with some actual reasoning rather than "durr, it's been here for a long time." What are you, Nikov?

The biggest problem with supporting the protesters is that I'm pretty sure at one point the Muslim Brotherhood will come along and seize control of the country and the last thing we need is a second 6-day war, because this time there's a fair chance Israel is going to turn into a nuclear crater.

Possible but incredibly, incredibly unlikely. The hard-line Muslims are two steps behind. They are not leading this--they are a follower. If the Muslim Brotherhood was leading it, the military would be shooting to kill. They have absolutely no love lost for the religious right-wing nuts.

[Phmcw]

Hey, Nikov wouldn't say that! Well, I don't think so.
It's just that, in America, you say "Muslims" they answer "anti American terrorists".

[G-Flex]

A government that has stood for decades has far more legitimacy than a bunch of rioters, whatever your idealism says.

A government standing for two decades does not make it legitimate when it does not reflect, and actively subverts, the will of the people. Being able to hold down a dictatorship for twenty years doesn't make you "legitimate". Dictators don't get squatter's rights.

In a situation like this, the people really don't have much choice.

[Blank Expression]

It's just that, in America, you say "Muslims" they answer "anti American terrorists".

I am an American. You are wrong.

(This is when you apologize for talking out your ass about a culture you don't actually know or understand, by the way.)

[Virex]

The biggest problem with supporting the protesters is that I'm pretty sure at one point the Muslim Brotherhood will come along and seize control of the country and the last thing we need is a second 6-day war, because this time there's a fair chance Israel is going to turn into a nuclear crater.

Possible but incredibly, incredibly unlikely. The hard-line Muslims are two steps behind. They are not leading this--they are a follower. If the Muslim Brotherhood was leading it, the military would be shooting to kill. They have absolutely no love lost for the religious right-wing nuts.

That may be, but unlike the protesters, the hard-line Islamists are prepared to massacre their countrymen if needed. In the power vacuum that follows an event like this, there's nobody who's recognized as the leader, so anyone willing to kill for power has a huge edge over the rest. In this case it's even worse because there is absolutely nobody who's going to be able to get the backing of a large part of the population. There are no leaders to this revolution and the current leaders, the only ones that could actually get some stability in the country, are going to get their heads lopped off.

[lemon10]

It's just that, in America, you say "Muslims" they answer "anti American terrorists".

I am an American. You are wrong.

(This is when you apologize for talking out your ass about a culture you don't actually know or understand, by the way.)

For the most part he is right though.
(I am also an American)

[alway]

It's just that, in America, you say "Muslims" they answer "anti American terrorists".

I am an American. You are wrong.

(This is when you apologize for talking out your ass about a culture you don't actually know or understand, by the way.)

For the most part he is right though.
(I am also an American)

This.

[G-Flex]

It's just that, in America, you say "Muslims" they answer "anti American terrorists".

I am an American. You are wrong.

(This is when you apologize for talking out your ass about a culture you don't actually know or understand, by the way.)

Aside from the overzealous broadness of the generalization, yes, there is far too much anti-Muslim sentiment/ignorance in the US right now, and I say that speaking as an American (and not even from a red state!) -- the problem is in the apparent insinuation that all Americans think like that.

[Virex]

Aside from the overzealous broadness of the generalization, yes, there is far too much anti-Muslim sentiment/ignorance in the US right now, and I say that speaking as an American (and not even from a red state!) -- the problem is in the apparent insinuation that all Americans think like that.

If a big enough group thinks it, it may as well be the whole country that thinks it because the sensible minority isn't going to be able to do anything constructive in the foreseeable future.

[Phmcw]

Islamophobia in Europe is rampant, and it seems to be even worst in America. I know all Americans aren't alike, but you got to admit ... for god's sake, just think of the shitstorm over "ground zero mosque".

Sorry if I offended you, but you've got to admit that I have a point.
If this was in Myanmar, nobody would say that!

Edit : hey, of course, a broad statement like that only mean that a significant portion of American would answer that. Does that even need to be said?