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[10ebbor10]

So you guys suggest we retract all our ground forces, reopen the border and return to how things used to be? and ask them "would you kindly stop firing rockets at us?"

There's a clear links with israeli "defensive" operations and rocket and mortar fire. A more peacefull aproach might not be perfect, but the current one isn't working.

[SharpKris]

But as history clearly shown, their so called "ceasefire" is only for them to re-build arms and not to save their children. they want peace to re-think their military strategy and Israel will not allow this.

[10ebbor10]

Then what are you going to do to resolve it? The previous missions didn't help what makes this one different?

The only thing this accomplishes is further entrenching support for hamas.

[Leafsnail]

I take it the Israeli army does not train anyone or buy any weapons during the ceasefire etc etc

[SharpKris]

I take it the Israeli army does not train anyone or buy any weapons during the ceasefire etc etc

that's hardly fair, Gaza isn't the only country we've got a border with you know.
And dont even get me started about Syria.

[Wolfhunter107]

But as history clearly shown, their so called "ceasefire" is only for them to re-build arms and not to save their children. they want peace to re-think their military strategy and Israel will not allow this.

You're doing the exact same thing, you know.

[SharpKris]

But as history clearly shown, their so called "ceasefire" is only for them to re-build arms and not to save their children. they want peace to re-think their military strategy and Israel will not allow this.

You're doing the exact same thing, you know.

except i don't strap explosives on 11 year olds and send them to border posts.
which btw actually happened to my team while we were in the border post, luckily we saw that he was acting odd and he refused following the checkup line, so we ordered him to stop and he just fell and burst into tears.
apparently he was threatened to carry out a suicide mission or they'll kill his brother.
so allow me to doubt their peaceful intentions when i know from personal experience that they hardly give a damm for their own people. 

[LordSlowpoke]

yeah, that's the fun part

hamas don't give a fuck, israel gives negative fucks outright what do we do with the palestinians

[Darvi]

We get it, both sides are bastards.

[Leafsnail]

that's hardly fair, Gaza isn't the only country we've got a border with you know.
And dont even get me started about Syria.

How's that relevant?  Gaza borders a country that invades it every two years.  Does it seem unreasonable that they want to build up arms in order to resist the next one?  If you think they should get rid of all their weapons and just trust their neighbour not to just trample all over them (again) then that's nice, but you're applying a double standard if you aren't asking Israel to do the same.

[SharpKris]

that's hardly fair, Gaza isn't the only country we've got a border with you know.
And dont even get me started about Syria.

How's that relevant?  Gaza borders a country that invades it every two years.  Does it seem unreasonable that they want to build up arms in order to resist the next one?  If you think they should get rid of all their weapons and just trust their neighbour not to just trample all over them (again) then that's nice, but you're applying a double standard if you aren't asking Israel to do the same.

But we're hardly the ones who initiate aggression. no one said they need to dispose of all their weapons but there's a large difference from being able to defend yourself to actively and aggressively attack someone else.
i'm hardly in the mood to bring up a history lesson but it's obvious that Hamas is the source of the problem and until the citizens of Gaza decide to be rid of it or ask for help in removing Hamas from power there would hardly be ever a chance for peace and cooperation between Israel and Gaza.
and we're still forgetting that Gaza is a radical muslim state that would sooner see everyone beheaded then agree to the mere existence of a jewish state   

[GlyphGryph]

Even you have to admit that what you're doing doesn't actually seem to be working, though? Does Israel have a long term plan? What do you think needs to be done to actually resolve things? burningpet clearly doesn't want them resolved, he mostly just seems to hate Palestinians and isn't even willing to see Israel work with Fatah. I'm hoping that others, even those such as yourself who understand the evil that exists on the other side of the wall can still see the evil in your own countries policies as well. Hopefully you don't subscribe to the same policy as burningpet of "if our enemy is evil, then we must be evil as well to defeat them".

Israel is shelling children on beaches, hospitals, refugee centers. Hamas is an organization that's clearly run by terrible, hateful people, and it would serve the Palestinians well to see it dismantled. But that doesn't absolve Israel of responsibility for what it's done in this conflict. It doesn't absolve them of responsibility for the innocent people they've killed, the lives they've ruined, of innocents. Burningpet says this is acceptable, he says things like how Israel has been "forced" into it and how they had no choice, but I hope such statements are as obviously false to you as they are to me.

You have people in your country that want to do evil just as badly as the worst members of Hamas, vile racists and genocidal maniacs, and I'm sure as a reasonable person you acknowledge these people exist, and like many in Israel have both felt the consequences of their evil (in their assassination of one of your leaders) and are concerned that they seem to be increasing in power.

I don't know how this situation will be resolved, but Israel has, more than once, acted to inflame passions rather than calm them. (It goes without saying that many radical leaders on the Palestinian side have done so as well, often for the same reason - ideological supremacy or political calculation)

I fully believe in taking action to end the evil that Hamas does, but I also believe in taking action to end the evil Israel does, and like it or not Europe and America have a lot more pull with Israel than they ever will with Hamas. Israel may even have less evil intent as official policy (for now), but they are far better equipped to make innocents suffer than Hamas is. And while intent matters, action matters more, and results matter as well.

[QuakeIV]

My only issue is that Israel is not nearly aggressive enough in trying to punish the staff that do this.  There was no cigar smoking general that said 'bomb those children on that beach', but there also wasn't one who said 'FIND THE MAN WHO BOMBED CHILDREN ON A BEACH AND COURT MARTIAL THE FUCK OUT OF HIM'.

[Leafsnail]

But we're hardly the ones who initiate aggression. no one said they need to dispose of all their weapons but there's a large difference from being able to defend yourself to actively and aggressively attack someone else.

Is there?  Israel's take on "defending itself" involves airstrikes and invasions.  How are the preparations required for that any different from the preparations for attacking somewhere else?

i'm hardly in the mood to bring up a history lesson but it's obvious that Hamas is the source of the problem and until the citizens of Gaza decide to be rid of it or ask for help in removing Hamas from power there would hardly be ever a chance for peace and cooperation between Israel and Gaza.

This is literally just you asserting that you're correct without basis.  I guess I'll make the most obvious point: if Hamas is the root cause of the problem then why was there violence in and around Palestine before the group gained power, and indeed before it existed at all?

and we're still forgetting that Gaza is a radical muslim state that would sooner see everyone beheaded then agree to the mere existence of a jewish state

Have you got a source on this?  Actually I'll save you the time, you don't because it's not true.  The roots of this conflict are far more complex than "A bunch of blood-gargling psychopaths live next to us".

[burningpet]

Does the Israeli concept of "truce" and "ceasefire" remind anyone else of this?

All we want to do is eat your brains
We're not unreasonable, I mean, no one's gonna eat your eyes
All we want to do is eat your brains
We're at an impasse here, maybe we should compromise:
If you open up the doors
We'll all come inside and eat your brains

No, but it actually do remind me of Islam. although, Islam do want to eat your eyes as well.